[Dillegm]

I just recently installed an Airdam clutch kit and reclocked the secondary on a brand new 21 Zforce 500 Trail. I went by Adams recommendations for all parts. I wanted faster engagement (less throttle mashing) and to be able to turn larger tires eventually. Basically I wanted a less mushy throttle.

The install was simple, but I'm concerned that either C1 was too much for the 500, or maybe I did something incorrectly.

The primary install was simple, with new sliders, weights, etc.

The secondary was clocked to C1, which after a test ride for 30 miles doesn't seem right for this machine. On the trails it was awesome, and I was impressed, but on open road it seemed way to low and slow. 6500-7200 for 30-32mph? Is that right? Cant be.

Now I'm considering reclocking to B2 or B3. B1 is the stock position.

Opinions, thoughts, suggestions?

Thank you

[NMKawierider]

B2 and B3 are much higher then C1. C1 should be the best for all 500s but...you also changed the weights on the primary so..all bets off. What spring did you go with on the primary? Regardless you should achieve full shiftout well prior to the limiter and well before the 7200 rpms. Put the stock weights back in just to try it for comparison.

[Dillegm]

The primary spring that came in the kit says 1016 on it.
I used the whole kit.
I wish they would inform of the weights involved but AirDam does not. I believe they are 10g weights, but I'm not positive.
I was going to attempt to figure out what's wrong by removing one part of the kit, replacing with stock, one at a time until it gets better. I was sure it was a secondary at fault, but if it's the primary that's even easier. I'll start there.

In another post a user said that C1 was on the very outside of what a 500 could do. That's why I was considering b2.
Also, B2 is what Airdam recommended.

I ordered a scale that'll be here in a few days to weight the Sliders and weights.

[NMKawierider]

The primary spring that came in the kit says 1016 on it.
I used the whole kit.
I wish they would inform of the weights involved but AirDam does not. I believe they are 10g weights, but I'm not positive.
I was going to attempt to figure out what's wrong by removing one part of the kit, replacing with stock, one at a time until it gets better. I was sure it was a secondary at fault, but if it's the primary that's even easier. I'll start there.

In another post a user said that C1 was on the very outside of what a 500 could do. That's why I was considering b2.
Also, B2 is what Airdam recommended.

I ordered a scale that'll be here in a few days to weight the Sliders and weights.

I also wish they were more clear of things. I also wish we knew where the stock primary spring fell on this chart. Theirs looks to be a 200/1200 ratio spring. Low stall but high shiftout..IMO:




You can see that C1 is on the low end of the preload scale:



If it has a problem getting full shift-out it can be any one of the three- secondary spring resistance, Primary spring resistance or primary flyweights. It can also be the sum of any or all three. Most people just go from B1, the factory position on the secondary, to C1 and either leave the rest alone or fine-tune with slight differences on the primary weights and/or spring. 

[Dillegm]

Here is the stock and airdam springs.

Looks like 300/900 stock

[Dillegm]

I just can't get over the feeling that I did something wrong with the secondary. It could just be anxiety, but the whole operation wasn't completely clear in mind.
I think I'm going to reclock it this week, just to be sure.
If that doesn't solve the issue, do you think leaving the weights and replacing the stock primary spring is okay? Once the scale gets here I can get a better idea what I'm looking at. It would be nice if it were just the primary.

[NMKawierider]

I just can't get over the feeling that I did something wrong with the secondary. It could just be anxiety, but the whole operation wasn't completely clear in mind.
I think I'm going to reclock it this week, just to be sure.
If that doesn't solve the issue, do you think leaving the weights and replacing the stock primary spring is okay? Once the scale gets here I can get a better idea what I'm looking at. It would be nice if it were just the primary.

Might have clocked to too far. If you look at the degree wheel, before setting the helix ramps on the pads there is no tesion or preload on the spring. That would be zero looking straight down on it. You can mark the helix and the base. Then when compressing it down and ready to rotate to the pad, you will turn the helix counter-clockwise (I believe) just enough to set the ramp on the pad. At that point if you look down on it again the separation between the two marks you made will be the same degree as you see on the degree wheel between zero and the C1, 34 degrees. If for some reason you made an extra 3rd of a rev, it will be way too resistant..be like B3 or more. It would be almost impossible to do that by hand though.

Did airdam say to clock it to C1?

[Dillegm]

B1 stock for aggressive, B2, B3 going up in aggressiveness.

The C1 recommendation came from another person I know who did this and had great results, which is why I'm thinking it's my fault on the secondary. But, with what I know now, plus what the scale should tell me soon, it may be the weights in the kit are too light, or the spring is too much. Sound about right?


Edit:
The tension was not that high when clocking it. It wasn't very hard at all actually. But then, all these video walk-through's don't explain the clocking part well at all.

[Dillegm]

Took it back apart today. Secondary looks fine. No apparent issues that I can see.
I weighed all the sliders and weights. Stock weights are 16g, the Airdam weights are 10g. Both sets of sliders are 10g.
When I put this kit in I was looking for faster,  quicker engagement. Less weight does the opposite of that. This could have been avoided if they labeled the weights but it's ultimately my fault for not weighing them before hand.
I'm going put it back together with the Airdam spring and stock weights for now. Someone recommended I do the penny technique and add a penny behind each weight to add a gram to each slider.
From what I've read, many people have had decent results using 18g weights, so this would get it closer to that.

[NMKawierider]

Just FYI, no two pennyies are the same..and one that has very little wear is closer to 2.46 grams..just weighed one. Make sure they are all the same as balance off the crankshaft is very important.

[Dillegm]

Just FYI, no two pennyies are the same..and one that has very little wear is closer to 2.46 grams..just weighed one. Make sure they are all the same as balance off the crankshaft is very important.

Thank you for the heads up, I will.

[NMKawierider]

centrifugal force turns grams into pounds of weight.

[Dillegm]

I ended up using the Airdam primary spring and the stock weights. I ordered 18g weights, but they are backordered so it'll be a while. After weighing a bunch of pennies, I just couldn't take that step. Pre 1980's pennies are 3g+ and post 80's pennies are 2.5+g. I'm not willing to trust the several tenths of a gram difference in each post 80's new pennies and what if one got loose? Nah, not for me lol.

The switch to stock weights gave me back the top end.

[Richm]

 

I ended up using the Airdam primary spring and the stock weights. I ordered 18g weights, but they are backordered so it'll be a while. After weighing a bunch of pennies, I just couldn't take that step. Pre 1980's pennies are 3g+ and post 80's pennies are 2.5+g. I'm not willing to trust the several tenths of a gram difference in each post 80's new pennies and what if one got loose? Nah, not for me lol.

The switch to stock weights gave me back the top end.

     How did things turn out and what did you settle on for final parts in your kit??   I've got the 1016 spring and 12 gram weights on the way and am going to clock to A1.
   was curious how yours turned out for comparison
   Thanks

[Dillegm]

I ended up using the Airdam primary spring and the stock weights. I ordered 18g weights, but they are backordered so it'll be a while. After weighing a bunch of pennies, I just couldn't take that step. Pre 1980's pennies are 3g+ and post 80's pennies are 2.5+g. I'm not willing to trust the several tenths of a gram difference in each post 80's new pennies and what if one got loose? Nah, not for me lol.

The switch to stock weights gave me back the top end.

     How did things turn out and what did you settle on for final parts in your kit??   I've got the 1016 spring and 12 gram weights on the way and am going to clock to A1.
   was curious how yours turned out for comparison
   Thanks

I’ve since sold the Zforce 500, but before I did I learned much more about tuning these CVTech primaries.
For a Z500, lower weights may cause you to lose too much low speed, as it will require higher RPM to shift out. A 1016 spring is 200/1200. Stock is 300/900.
I had very little luck with the 1016 spring and A1, finally settling with stock secondary clocking and a 1015 200/900 spring and 18g weights.
That kept engagement low, and a quicker shift-out. With the 1016- 200/1200, it never fully shifted out and when you combine that with a reclocked secondary, I ended up losing 25-30+ mph top speed.
I’d be cruising at 30mph at 7000 RPM and not much more to give.
That wasn’t acceptable for me.

My suggestion is to leave your secondary alone unless you want to replace the helix and secondary spring with a stage 3 kit. Reclocking slightly for larger tires is okay but if you use that 1016 primary spring with 12g weights you may lose a ton of high speed.
You’ll have a hill climbing monster for sure, but that wasn’t what I wanted. You might.
Z500’s only have so much power, so drastic changes to the clutches produce extreme results, or at least that was my personal experience.

16-20g weights, a 1015 spring and stage 3 secondary kit would be perfect for the Z500 in my opinion. You’d not lose hardly any top end if done right.

I’m sure some more experienced fellas may disagree but that’s just my experience with it and part of why I sold it once I found a decent setup.

Sorry if any of this is confusing, I’m at work and in a rush.

Good luck