[Psychlone]

I burned my belt trying to get up over something in High without thinking. See my avatar?  Yeah, it was my toolbox... I attempted to get it up on it without being in low and locked.  My bad, lesson learned and I know better now.

I ordered a Timken Ultimax just like @jokerking69 did in his thread in Sept. and now I'm having the same exact issue with the wheeler rolling forward without any gas at all, cannot shift from anything to anything.  Mine's worse, I literally have to turn the wheeler off to get it into another gear.

When I pulled the primary, I wasn't paying very close attention and the all of it came apart in my hands, the clutches fell out, the spring dropped and the one way bearing and spring collar (or whatever it's called) all came out at once.
I've watched the only video I can find on changing out the CVT belt on the CF600 and it looks like the one way bearing is right up against the sheeve but I can't get mine to go back that far.
(move to 52 seconds in to see what I'm talking about)

Is there a pic that ANYONE has that shows what direction the bearing needs to be, and how far back on the shaft it goes?
In the vid, it simply shows the guy spinning the bearing, but it's really not close enough to see if it's really as far back against the cylinder as it looks.  I need someone with experience to tell me these two things:
1) which direction does the bearing get installed? (there are no markings at all anywhere on it. I saw someone else say the bearing has small writing that faces inside towards the cylinder, but mine has no markings at all).
2) how far back on the shaft does it go? I'm not about to 'tap it into place' even with a rubber mallet - it all fell out at once so there's no way it could've been hard to get on if it just fell out.

I do have a thought here.  The new belt is about 1/16 thicker than the old belt, so I'm going to try just removing one of the little shims in the primary and give that a test to see if it still engages without giving it any gas. In my mind, this is about the only place I can adjust to accommodate for the slightly thicker belt...

Thanks for any input, it's MUCH appreciated!


EDIT:: NEW INFO
I pulled the primary off, removed the thinnest metal shim, put it back together and it seems better, but I don't think it's quite right.
I can get it into gear without much trouble, and changing gears works with a little effort, but now I notice that the secondary is spinning at idle where I don't think it was before the belt change.  I'm actually not totally certain here, because I've never had the cover off before, but I don't recall hearing the secondary spinning like it is now.


EDIT 2:
I pulled the primary again, removed the plastic shim and put the thinner metal shim back and then reassembled and it's really close to what I think it should be now.
I can get it into and out of gear easy, but the secondary still turns when in Park, only about half as much as when it was just the plastic shim in... so it appears that removing the thicker plastic shim has allowed for the difference in thickness of the new belt.  Wow, that was a freaking crash-course in CVT surgery.  Never done any of this before and I'm pretty proud that it all has worked out so far.

Now, my only question is:  If I remove the small, thin metal shim so there are no spacing shims at all, will it still hold me back going downhill?  I have no way of testing this any time soon.  So if anyone could chime in and tell me if the secondary is supposed to be turning while in park at idle, that would be helpful, I don't think I'm tearing it all apart again until I get a little input because I *think* it's just about where it's supposed to be.

...not back for a first timer. I'm fortunate that I'm mechanically minded and could see how the air clutches go back in, as well as everything else.

I've added pics of the difference in belts.
The old one is on the right, it's distinguished by the glassy edge and rough inner.  In the one pic, you can see the thickness difference to the new one on the bottom.  It's about 1/16", but it was definitely enough to throw off the geometry in the sheeves, which is probably exactly why they put spacers in there, right?!

[NMKawierider]

Looks simple enough..The only thing is the direction of the overriding clutch which has to allow the center shaft or inner race to rotate at idle and not spin the outer race which the belt rides on when engaged. Should be easy enough to determine that. Probably the sprags will be leaning toward/with the crankshaft's direction of rotation. Against it it would tend to engage. You should know though that there have been a lot of those bearing failures and if it doesn't allow free spinning in the open direction, the belt will have force on it making it hard to stop when going from neutral to any gear. Also check that the sheaves are not touching the belt just sitting there. If they are, you will need another shim or a thinner belt. The service manual will have the belt specs and if the new one doesn't meet that spec, it's the wrong one so contact the maker.

[Psychlone]

Thanks for that @NMKawierider, that does help.

So am I thinking about it backwards?
When I put it all back together, the secondary was constantly spinning, making it impossible to shift at all.  I would literally have to turn the machine off to put it into a different gear and then start it in gear with the brakes on.  Was interesting getting it back into my driveway with limited space.

So the next time I pulled it apart, I removed #14 shim from your diagram.  That allowed me to shift but not as easy as it should be, but the secondary was still spinning most of the time at idle in park.

The next time I pulled it apart, I removed #15 (plastic shim) and put #14 back.  15 is twice the thickness of 14. In my mind, I was compensating for the difference in thickness of the new belt which is just about the thickness of this shim.
This allowed me to be able to shift gears without any problem, but in park the secondary does still turn - but it does allow me to shift into any gear and the secondary stops the moment I engage a gear.

Does this mean I've got the race backwards in the one-way bearing (#17 in the diagram)?  How would I tell which way it's supposed to go?

[NMKawierider]

The secondary should not be spinning. The primary will as it is part of the crank but the belt rides on the bearing when the sheaves are retracted or away from the belt. IF..the bearing is in backward or is seizing or the belt is touching the sheaves, then belt will turn the secondary and thus the transmission. You do not want that...obviously.
Might also check that the flyweights are all in correctly. If one is upside down or out of place that could make the cam plate not allow full release/movement.

[Psychlone]

The secondary should not be spinning. The primary will as it is part of the crank but the belt rides on the bearing when the sheaves are retracted or away from the belt. IF..the bearing is in backward or is seizing or the belt is touching the sheaves, then belt will turn the secondary and thus the transmission. You do not want that...obviously.

This is great info, thank you.

So then either one of two things is happening:
1) I've got the sheaves too tight by removing one of the shims
2) I've got the bearing backwards on the shaft

Any easy way to tell which way the "vanes" inside the bearing are supposed to be installed?  It freely spins in both directions with the primary off, but can be installed backwards just as easily because there is no indicator as to which way it's supposed to be installed...

EDIT:  AAARRRG!
I just pulled it apart and found the bearing completely destroyed.

[Psychlone]

This sucks.

I really need to know which direction these are supposed to be installed so when I get my new one I don't make the same mistake.
Quite a set back.

These little vanes have an edge that is angled one direction... either toward the front of the machine or toward the rear, but nowhere does it actually SHOW OR SAY which direction they're supposed to be installed.

[NMKawierider]

Yeah...that can also happen if installed backwards. Sorry man.

What does the service manual say?

[Psychlone]

Yeah, I don't have a service manual.  I'm just an owner that isn't afraid of wrenching on things myself.  Even when that means I've toasted a part here or there.  Learning by experience is better than never knowing IMO.

I can't even find this bearing online.  Everywhere that has the "clutch override bearing" shows it as something completely different.

This pic is what I find when I search for the part.  I don't have a correct part number since I don't have a service manual.

[NMKawierider]

That parts breakdown I posted was from Alpha-Sports and it also has the part numbers..

Here's a link:

https://alpha-sports.com/cfmoto_parts.htm?q=cfmoto-parts-catalog

[Psychlone]

That parts breakdown I posted was from Alpha-Sports and it also has the part numbers..

Here's a link:

https://alpha-sports.com/cfmoto_parts.htm?q=cfmoto-parts-catalog

Great resource, thank you.
I'd probably never purchase from them though because their price for the overriding clutch bearing is close to 3 times the price other sites have it for including CFMoto themselves... but I never would have found the correct part without that part number, so thank you!

I found a CFMoto 500 service manual direct from CFMoto but it doesn't show which direction the vanes are oriented.

ANY info from anyone that knows which direction to install the bearing would be GREATLY appreciated!!!  I can't believe that something so important isn't documented or noted anywhere I've found!

[Psychlone]

Anybody know which direction this is supposed to be installed?  My new bearing will be here tomorrow and I refuse to put it on without the proper knowledge of which way it's supposed to go... teeth facing the front of the wheeler or facing the back?

[NMKawierider]

Anybody know which direction this is supposed to be installed?  My new bearing will be here tomorrow and I refuse to put it on without the proper knowledge of which way it's supposed to go... teeth facing the front of the wheeler or facing the back?

I can only offer you this as this is what I would consider on direction. The part that is spinning while the vehicle is not in motion must not be able to engage the clutch. The only thing that should engage the clutch is the outer part trying to rotate faster then the inner part...in other words, on deceleration the vehicle is not slowing as fast as the engine so it will try to rotate the bearing faster and cause the sprags the roll-into the inner shaft makes it lock. So confirm the direction of engine crankshaft rotation and install the bearing so the sprags lean toward the direction of rotation...as in the pic below. This is what I would do.

[Psychlone]

Anybody know which direction this is supposed to be installed?  My new bearing will be here tomorrow and I refuse to put it on without the proper knowledge of which way it's supposed to go... teeth facing the front of the wheeler or facing the back?

I can only offer you this as this is what I would consider on direction. The part that is spinning while the vehicle is not in motion must not be able to engage the clutch. The only thing that should engage the clutch is the outer part trying to rotate faster then the inner part...in other words, on deceleration the vehicle is not slowing as fast as the engine so it will try to rotate the bearing faster and cause the sprags the roll-into the inner shaft makes it lock. So confirm the direction of engine crankshaft rotation and install the bearing so the sprags lean toward the direction of rotation...as in the pic below. This is what I would do.

I **REALLY** appreciate this explanation and your drawing, I found it very informative.
I just got my new bearing, looks identical to the old one (except with lots more sprags, LOL) 

So just making sure I understand you correctly, I've verified that my CF600 Touring shaft spins clockwise if I'm facing it.  I would install the new bearing so the sprags are leaning clockwise.  Is this correct?  I didn't notice before, but they do lean much further in one direction than the other.

EDIT: Almost forgot.  Another GREAT resource: http://cvtech-rd.com/en/client/page202ac.html?page=40&clef=31&clef2=12
In Step 2, part 2, it says that this step requires the use of an insertion tool that looks like a small flange.  My new bearing came with a small plastic flange that's similar (not exact).  I can assume that you put this on the shaft first because it's going to bottom out on the shaft collar at the back, then slip the bearing over it onto that collar where it's supposed to sit.  Then if I'm thinking correctly, the bearing should free-spin backwards but not forwards, right?

[NMKawierider]

An insertion tool usually means its used to install something then removed after installation. In this case I would assume it's used so that the sprags don't get damaged while sliding the unit onto the shaft...so keep in mine it has to come off..or slide out after the bearing is in place. Afterwards the bearing may spin both ways with just a normal spin but a quick snapping spin in the direction of shaft rotation..ie clockwise as you say, should be enough to engage the sprags. IT SHOULD NOT engage... no matter what you do spinning it counter-clockwise.

[Psychlone]

An insertion tool usually means its used to install something then removed after installation. In this case I would assume it's used so that the sprags don't get damaged while sliding the unit onto the shaft...so keep in mine it has to come off..or slide out after the bearing is in place. Afterwards the bearing may spin both ways with just a normal spin but a quick snapping spin in the direction of shaft rotation..ie clockwise as you say, should be enough to engage the sprags.

Sorry man, I didn't follow that.

I used the insertion tool to slip the bearing on the shaft.  You're probably right, it's there to protect the sprags from getting damaged, and it definitely comes off.  But after it's off, my bearing only moves counter-clockwise.

I know for certain the shaft, while facing it, spins clockwise. I'm getting stuck in my head...
Is the bearing supposed to spin the same direction as the shaft or the opposite?  This bearing does not spin both directions and I suspect the only reason my old one did is because of the missing teeth not gripping anything at all.

EDIT:  I re-read your post and I think I understand that you're saying that the bearing should freely spin in both directions but a quick motion should throw the sprags into the shaft and stop the spin.  Is this what you're saying?

The new bearing only spins one way.  I used the insertion tool to get it on the shaft and pulled the insertion tool off and the bearing only spins counter clockwise regardless of how hard or quick I try to spin it.
I'll go out and turn it around and test that direction just to see if it spins BOTH ways but locks in one direction if spun quick...


EDIT 2:  Just reversed it and for certain it locks up without giving any pressure at all in one direction but spins freely in the other.

So now, I don't understand which direction it's supposed to spin and which way it's supposed to lock.
Engine shaft spins clockwise.  Which way is the bearing supposed to lock, same direction as the shaft or opposite?