[Big T]

OK, I'm new to SxS's. Sold my Yamaha Grizzly 700 EPS and looking to get a machine my wife and I can take trail riding. I have been looking at new machines and narrowed to a Can Am 800 XT or Yamaha Wolverine R-Spec. I have not driven anything yet. The other day I stopped at a local (25 miles away) Kawasaki/ CF Moto dealer. The Z Force 1000 caught my eye and after looking it over, was impressed. I'm the type that researches large purchases to death, so I dug into the CFM's and ended up here, looking for some input. I get it that you get more bang for the buck with CFM, but I'm always the guy that asks why.
You guys have been out on the trails and I'm sure have friends that drive other brands. What have you heard about the Can Am and Yamaha, and how do you think it compares to the Z Force 1000?
I've read that CF Moto makes engines for other companies. Is this true, and who?
Also, I read that the Z Force 1000 has a chain CVT, rather than a belt? I know this is common in cars, but have never seen it in a ATV/UTV, not that I'm an expert. Has anyone had experience with the chain? What's the advantages and disadvantages?
I know CFM is a Chinese company, but where are these built? How much of the machines are U.S. or Canadian content?

[NMKawierider]

Welcome. First no chain CVT. It is a belt..and they did do away with the wet clutch system for the ..what is called the "Belt Slammer" system which improved performance. The 1000 is basically the Z800 with a larger engine and better brakes.. Don't have any experience with them and they are new this year but do with my Z8 53/trail. Can say they are pretty durable and with common sense and good maintenance they are a decent trail machine. Are they in the same class as CA and Yamaha..well, no (IMO) But they also give you some extras that don't come with the others too..and at a price below the others as well. Built in China..with mostly all chinese parts these days. Maybe they are still using CVTech clutches...not sure.

[ctdls]

Loaded post.

Starting from near the bottom & chain CVT, wrong! Where did you see, hear or read that?

Chinese yes, engine manufacturer yes. The units themselves are a sum of other manufacturers, just like the vehicle you drive or anything else you own. CVTech clutches are from Canada & possibly manufactured in Canada. Bosch EFI is German, guess where the modules are manufactured? The front diff I'm told is Japanese & the same supplier that Yamaha uses.

You are 100% correct to question the price deferential as we all should. My broken record comment is that the dealer needs to be above average. The service department needs to have the ability to think & work without hand holding from the manufacturer. This should be your decision factor should you consider CFM.

Hopefully others will post & answer the questions I've not responded to.

My question for you, what are your mechanical abilities?

[REDRIDER]

If you want performance the wolverine Rspec is the slowest of them. Great reliable machine 2 of my friends have them but I am faster on my Z800 even with 29" tires. Can am I have no experience with but it is reputable. Z1000 is brand new engine so we don't have any experience with it yet, It just came out. A couple guys have them and are impressed with the power but for longevity or problems we are in untested waters. Zforce gives you best bang for your buck because it comes well equipped stock and is a little less than direct competition that has none of the equipment. I would say if you have mechanical ability go with a zforce. You WILL have to tinker as the quality control seems to be lacking, but that could be remedied with a good dealer. Mine sucks I fix my stuff myself. I've had to do new wheel bearings in the rear, thermos switch, exhaust springs, park brake adjustment, had a low oil pressure light issue the the dealer "fixed" under warranty and the engine is noisey on mine, but it hasn't broken so they wouldn't do anything about it. Overall I am pretty satisfied with my 800 for the price, about 5 grand less than a RZR would have been similarly equipped.

[Big T]

Gents, Thanks for your input. I really appreciate your knowledge of the CFM machines.

I read that "chain drive" off some spec sheet on the Z1000, but I must have misinterpreted it. Must have been for something else.

As for my mechanical abilities, I am fairly mechanical. I am a snowmobiler and do most of my own maintenance. Having said that, if I'm buying something new, I shouldn't expect to have to work on it, and that seems to be the theme I am hearing.

Doing away with the wet clutch IMO seems like a step backwards. I get it that a "belt slammer" drive may improve performance, but are we sacrificing reliability? One knock I have read on the Can Am's is they can eat belts. Don't want that.

[NMKawierider]

Gents, Thanks for your input. I really appreciate your knowledge of the CFM machines.

I read that "chain drive" off some spec sheet on the Z1000, but I must have misinterpreted it. Must have been for something else.

As for my mechanical abilities, I am fairly mechanical. I am a snowmobiler and do most of my own maintenance. Having said that, if I'm buying something new, I shouldn't expect to have to work on it, and that seems to be the theme I am hearing.

Doing away with the wet clutch IMO seems like a step backwards. I get it that a "belt slammer" drive may improve performance, but are we sacrificing reliability? One knock I have read on the Can Am's is they can eat belts. Don't want that.

I've had both and had great experience with both. The key for any clutching system is..understand it...and operate it with the least amount of slippage. You can toast a wet clutch too slipping it.

[ctdls]

As for my mechanical abilities, I am fairly mechanical. I am a snowmobiler and do most of my own maintenance. Having said that, if I'm buying something new, I shouldn't expect to have to work on it, and that seems to be the theme I am hearing.

Doing away with the wet clutch IMO seems like a step backwards. I get it that a "belt slammer" drive may improve performance, but are we sacrificing reliability? One knock I have read on the Can Am's is they can eat belts. Don't want that.

A sled guy thats maintains his own will be just fine with this product. You are correct with assumption you should not have to work on it. This would be a partial answer to your original question about the price difference. If you have an above average dealer close to you & willing to pay for services you won't have to work on it yourself.

I'm a mountain sledder & have clutched for 25 years. I've never heard this belt slammer description until I started visiting this site  I'm struggling with tuning limitations of the wet clutch. I don't give up either & will figure this out when I get back to it. Unless the 1000's steals the limelight & I'm distracted 

Best of luck with your choice, the money saved might allow you to modify the unit to your liking. Or possibly just keep it in the bank because you don't have to purchase some stuff the CFM comes standard with.

[REDRIDER]

Wet clutch is great if you want to do rock crawling, slow moving, and great for engine braking. Belt slammer is superior for power and WOT, racing, dunes ect. If you are going to do crawling a lot then you might want a wet clutch system maybe look to the 800. No belt problems on these that I've heard of. I prefer the wet clutch for my riding style mostly under 20mph and I like to do the technical stuff. We have no high speed areas to ride except the road, which I still get to 60+ on 29's with an 800 and wet clutch system (tuned)

[glenlivet]

...Doing away with the wet clutch IMO seems like a step backwards. I get it that a "belt slammer" drive may improve performance, but are we sacrificing reliability? One knock I have read on the Can Am's is they can eat belts. Don't want that.

Aside from improving the air filter I have not had to do anything to my 800 Trail CFM other than what I wanted to do by way of add ons and improvements.
I have to confess that I don't understand at all the often apologetically expressed notion that the CFM SXS is 'not in the same class' as a Can Am or Polaris. In the multi machine rides I've been on, chiefly ATV, it is ALWAYS a Can-Am or Polaris that needs trailside repairs. How on earth can the idea persist that a particular brand is so advanced and so special when it's holding everyone up while its owner and friends display do the plumber posture as they pull wrenches on the poor thing. Yeah, usually it's their belt that's gone flapping its way to heaven, though often it is other things. Thank goodness the CFM isn't in that category!

I agree that CFM dispensing with the wet clutch on the 1000 is a step backward, at least for my style of riding. I think CFM decided to do that in order to better compete against rival makes that cut their teeth making snowmobiles and are philosophically married to the belt slammer style CVT. Revving at a stop and snatching the belt for a holeshot must be fun alright but when the tradeoff is technical trail tractability and the sort of superb engine braking right down to crawling speed that the 800 has, truth be told if offered a choice between a belt clutch 1000 and a wet clutch 800 I'll have the 800.
I can descend the steepest hills with no service brake at all, at a steady 3 KMH crawl and if I shut off the ignition the machine will just sit there on that steep hill at a dead stop! In the same situation the 1000 will take its operator on a Nantucket sleigh ride, and he relies on the brakes alone to keep it in check.
For that matter the 800 has a separate braking system altogether for the hand brake, it operates a disk on the rear driveline entirely independent of the wheel service brakes.
The 1000's hand brake is just another means of engaging the wheel service brakes.
With the 1000 CFM seems to be appealing to the hot rodding sector of buyers. Nothing wrong with that. Adds versatility to the lineup.
It's all good.

[Z8rider]

no wet clutch is a more widely used system with ATV and side-by-side... unless I am missing something? Other manufacturers don't seem to have customers shopping elsewhere to get a machine with a wet clutch.

[glenlivet]

NMK has nailed it again, of course. On these machines, to get from a stop to the speed at which slippage ceases something has to slip, be it a belt in one case and a clutch in the other. Limiting that necessary slip is the prudent thing to do.
As long as we don't treat it like an automatic car where you can creep all day and nothing is harmed.