0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

*

Offline stabone

Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« on: July 29, 2016, 02:36:07 AM »
This question isn't technically about a CF Moto. The machine is a 2013 XY Powersports Big Iron 600 EFI, but the engine is a CF Moto 196s-b. A friend of mine got a good price on a leftover, up until then I had never heard of the brand. I did notice it had a cf moto engine.
So after his break period, not sure what time period he used, he changed the oil and filter. It wasn't until after the problem started that I looked into what oil he used, then found out it contained friction modifiers. So for anyone who doesn't know about this machine, it has a metal body and dump making it a very heavy machine, around 1400 lbs.  After hauling a heavy load of sand up long hill (in High), he started having issues with the clutch not engaging. With just over 100 miles on the machine, I figured it was an issue with the cvt sheaves, but after finding nothing, I pulled the clutch. It was completely worn, and the bell is scored and a little black on the outside. (I'll post pics soon)
Anyway I wanted to know if anyone  has any info on the Dr Pulley clutch. This machine does have the engine brake and I wanted to make sure that the Dr Pulley clutch was compatible. Also looking for any ideas on spring and roller settings for this heavy machine. I believe it has 26 inch tires.
Any ideas/opinions  would be greatly appreciated.

*

Offline NMKawierider

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 08:31:49 AM »
Welcome. I know nothing about this machine or even what engine it is but if it uses the same CVT and wet clutching system the others use, I am not sure Dr. Pulley's "Hit" clutch actually fit...at least I never found one for an 800. As for the rest, if it uses the same CVT clutches then for heavier loads you will want to increase the preload on the secondary to probably B2. It won't hurt to drop a couple of grams on the primary and go with the Dr Pully sliders.

Low range is your best friend with high loads on wet clutches. Tell your friend to use it or continue to loose wet clutch shoes and bells from low RPM slippage no matter what he does to the CVT clutches.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

*

Offline Cosmosdan

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2016, 09:20:36 AM »
There is a cfmoto clutching tread here. Search for it. You have the HL clutch if you have engine braking. Dr pulley's hit wet clutch might be for the MC clutch that doesn't have engine braking. The oem part numbers are different between the two types. Email  them to make sure it will fit. Make sure you can return it just in case. NMK recommendations are spot on. 24g rollers at B2 should be good start for a heavy machine like that. Regular rollers like what's in there now are cheaper than the sliders if short on cash.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

*

Offline stabone

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2016, 02:35:21 AM »
After doing a lot of research,  I believe this machine doesn't have engine braking. There is no one-way bearing in the clutch housing, so I assume that means no engine braking. Looking at part lists on alpha sports, the closest machine is the 2013 Uforce Rancher 600. Looking at the parts listed under Clutch and CVT, there is still two types, HL and MC, but both say without engine brake. Looking under Clutch Housing, there isn't a listing for the one-way bearing. So now I'm still not sure which clutch and housing to get, the MC or HL, going to call tomorrow and see if they can help.  But since there is no engine brake, I now am wondering if the Dr Pulley Clutch would work. Either that or I would like to try adding weights (slugs) to the clutch shoes. Has anyone tried this yet?

*

Offline Cosmosdan

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2016, 07:46:21 AM »
Post some pics if you can. I have heard of talk of slugging the wet clutch but no one has to my knowledge. I did notice the last time I pulled my clutch apart it was stamped HL inside an oval on the black metal thrust plate that held the rollers. Yours my have one too. If you are driving along or going down a hill and let off the gas you will know right away if you have a engine brake. You can also mesure the rollers
MC is 30x19
HL is 30x18
They will mesure a little smaller than that but 19mm will be over 18mm wide.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 08:00:09 AM by Cosmosdan »
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

*

Offline chuddly

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2016, 08:33:09 AM »
The one way bearing wont be in with the sheaves (what the belt rides in/on).  It is in with the wet clutch behind another cover that is behind the sheaves.  My dad has a Big Iron and i had to replace his wet clutch so i know his had a one way bearing. If you have any other questions feel free to post here and I will do what i can to answer them or send me a PM.

I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

*

Offline Wheels

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2016, 09:19:28 AM »
The cfmoto 196s-b engine is used in the 2013 x6 atv, with the 196s-c used in the z6 utv. Engine brake available on both
If it has Pistons or Tits you will encounter problems.

*

Offline stabone

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2016, 10:42:17 AM »
From looking at the parts diagram, it looks like the one way bearing sits in the clutch housing, this did not have one. There is a bearing under a cover on the cvt case. Anyway, I just ordered the parts without the engine brake, Should I change the order?

*

Offline stabone

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2016, 10:44:17 AM »
I need the clutch and the housing, would you happen to know the part numbers for these?

*

Offline chuddly

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2016, 02:27:35 PM »
No the one way bearing ALWAYS runs in oil in the same place where the wet clutch runs.  I cant say for sure if ALL of them/ yours does or doesnt have a one way.  I can say that if it was me i would pull it down and take that cover off and look like RIGHT now so you could still cancel that order if you need to.  Also....if it does have the one way make sure you put it back on the way it came off or you will be doing it all over again.  the only other way i know to check it is to put the bike in gear and jack up the rear wheels and with the cover off the CVT try to spin the sheaves, it will spin one way freely and if you turn it the other way it will try to turn the wheels/engine.  If it does that then you have a one way bearing
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

*

Offline stabone

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2016, 07:51:54 PM »
Ok, so earlier I did call them back and put a hold on the order. I talked to some friends of mine and now have a better understanding of this. The one-way bearing or "overriding clutch" sits in the clutch bell between the bell and wet clutch. Now I never   drove this beast so I only assumed it would have an engine brake based on how heavy it is. This did not have a one-way bearing on it. Then I considered changing the order thinking maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to get the engine brake setup, but this isn't mine and my friend doesn't really seem to care, just wants it fixed. Anyway, based on pics I've looked at, the original wet clutch might be the one for the engine brake, so if he decides he wants it, I could just swap the shoes and get the one-way bearing. I think the only difference in bell's is that the one comes with the bearing installed. Anyway, Im going to see about the slugs, getting the ones for the rhino 660 just to see if they'll work. I'll make sure to get pics.

*

Offline stabone

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2016, 08:02:12 PM »
Here's the original clutch

*

Offline NMKawierider

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2016, 08:04:21 PM »
Anything with a CVT has engine braking. Engine braking is simply the CVT clutches back shifting on decal to go to the lower ratio..just like you downshifting a manual vehicle and keeping your foot off the gas... until either belt is released by the primary or the wet clutch disengages from the bell. Either way, this happens between 9 and 5mph unless your machine has a device that holds it in longer...like my Brute will down to 2mph.  You can have a system without a one way-type bearing. You just won't be able to bump start it.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 08:08:23 PM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

*

Offline NMKawierider

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2016, 08:06:26 PM »
Here's the original clutch
That is one shot set of shoes on that wet clutch. I would suspect the bell isn't in great shape from being MTM. (Metal To Metal)
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

*

Offline stabone

Re: Looking for clutch opinions for cf196s-b
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2016, 08:15:55 PM »
I see, I was just going off the designation of the parts as Engine Brake and No Engine Brake.
And yes,  the bell was burned and scarred. Here's a pic but it's not the best.