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Offline NMKawierider

CVT Air Filter Discussion
« on: July 27, 2016, 09:00:37 PM »
Together we have addressed many of the CFM's short comings and greatly improved its reliability. One area we have not addressed yet is the CVT system and how it is so abundantly clear how vulnerable they are to the abrasive effects of dirt and dust but the accumulation of this stuff in all parts of the system. My research shows filtering the intake air on a CVT system is not a new idea, in fact several other manufacturers are doing it.. and have been doing it for a while. So it's our turn.   

This thread will be on filtering our CVTs. It will be a team effort... that's all of us CFM owners.. because the Zs, Us & Cs/Xs all use the same basic type of CVT system but the plumbing is all different. All thoughts and ideas are welcome. Post anything you find that relates or might help the process. In the end we will put together some How-Tos that will help everyone.

Just some examples from others -Here's one for a Polaris:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Polaris-Ranger-Crew-800-Clutch-CVT-Intake-Air-Cleaner-Box-With-Filter-/131809889678?hash=item1eb07b4d8e:g:EdYAAOSw8vZXMkDG&vxp=mtr

Here's a simple Uni for a Rhino that might be adapted to work for the Zs and Us.:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-Two-Stage-Foam-CVT-Air-Filter-Yamaha-Rhino-660-2005-2007-NU-3259ST-/152147921917?hash=item236cb90bfd:g:mWIAAOSwAYtWLvde&vxp=mtr

Even some for the Kawasaki Mule:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-400-520-620-Mule-CVT-Belt-Air-Filter-11013-1263-/151555007504?hash=item234961e410:g:Sg4AAOSwBnVW9WSz&vxp=mtr
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 08:33:43 AM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Cosmosdan

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 11:32:26 PM »
The Ranger filter looks promising, but how to clean it. I was looking for something flatter with a replaceable filter. I was trying to find electrical cabinet filter box that has a cover that the opening faces down. Some Ranger air filters are the big canister type. If I can find enough space to put it in that might work out.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

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Offline Red Dog 4x4

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 12:35:06 AM »
What about a small K&N air filter?

I am looking at one for mine but for the motor more than anything, as the sock on the filter keeps falling off, and i run K&N in everything I own.
2016 CF550 HO
My Nissan patrol build- http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=21495.0

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Offline Cosmosdan

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 12:45:49 AM »
Red dog, If it is the rubber boot type Just look at the stock air filter and match it to one of the k&N's.

OK, look at this one. It has a washable filter, looks like it has some options to mount it and is cheap enough not to get pissed if it doesn't work out.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Air-Filter-Box-GY6-125-150cc-Honda-Chinese-European-Scooters-I54-/182119554705?hash=item2a672bde91:g:f6sAAOSwn9lXKpsb&vxp=mtr
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 08:25:27 AM »
Red Dog, there have been some that have had issues with the K&Ns on these you might want to read-up on.

On my Z I tried cutting some Uni filter material and placing it under the access door. I found oiled it did work but after only a few hours it had enough dirt crust on it that I was afraid it would become restrictive and the slowed airflow would cause increased heating of the belt area so I cleaned it and left it dry. This increased the life but let some stuff by and still over a day or so got pretty dirty. I then shaved the second stage off the filter material leaving just the first course stage. That gave me several days of unrestrictive airflow but still let far too much stuff through IMO. This along with the stock filter helps but is only a stop-gap measure of protection. I did learn that solid filtration can be done, however it will need to have enough surface area to give a reasonable amount of time between servicing. At least a week's camping trip I think...say about 20-30 hours of riding. Covering the door area with an oiled two-stage is about 2-3 hours..far from enough.

So, some things to keep in mind are:

1. Sized large enough to go a reasonable amount of time.
2. Placed or installed where servicing will be easy enough to be done when needed with relative ease.
3. A filter type that is cost effective to service or replace as well as be as effective as the engine air intake filter.
4. A "system" or modification that can be done by the average person with common tools.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Cosmosdan

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 01:49:26 AM »
I was hoping to find a box that I put in the void area behind the drivers seat. I think if I can get the intake into the cab area it will cut down the amount of dust that gets to the filter. I was thinking just mount a flat round filter behind the seat, but I ran into how to keep it from getting wet. I'm still on the hunt. I also had an idea to have a HAVAC shop make box out of alum. that would hold a reg. squ. auto filter. Big area and cheap/easy to find. I could than find a cover with an opening at the bottom or at least keep rain out. I had a shop make a custom duct for me and they did a great job. What I'm thinking of will be easy for them and cost might be cheap enough for everyone who wants one.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2016, 02:19:51 AM »
Here’s what I think I’ll do on this intake.

Took it all apart today and wow, this may be a bit of a challenge trying to use most of the OE tube. I could run a new line complete but there are some design advantages in keeping the OE tube from the CVT case.. plus it is not in the cover’s way when I need to remove it:



So…right now, with the limited room there, my thinking is to only replace the intake rubber piece:





With this 6”x6”x4” project box w/lid. Its 4"s deep and the void tapers from 3.5 to 5" in that area so I think I can make it work.



 As the end of the OE tube is about 3” I will tap a double male 3” nipple on the OE pipe side and use this filter on the inside which has the correct for the box and the 3” nipple:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/321713330583?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I will then use heat and adjust the bend of the OE pipe to a true 45 degree angle and install this silicone 45..adjusted..between the box and pipe. Length adjusted of course:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400435847562?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Then install the box straight unlike the OE end and flush with the inside surface using pre-mounted brackets on the box and push-pins and cover any part of the old intake hole that remains with black plastic. As for the box cover, I will lay-out several rows of either ½” or 1” holes and drill them in. I do have some black water resistant Outerwears prefilter material I may affix to the inside of the cover just for some extra protection.

Anyone see anything wrong with this idea?

One side thought. While doing this..just maybe.. instead of just a 3” nipple through the box to attach the filter and the 45, I could install this 3” blower instead…or I could do it later if necessary.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MARINE-3-ELECTRIC-IN-LINE-BLOWER-FOR-BOATS-RVs-12V-ATTWOOD-Turbo-3000-/291645489282?hash=item43e76d0082:g:hqQAAOSwo3pWexPk&vxp=mtr   

I have an adjustable temp. switch I can place on the CVT exhaust and have it be automatic when needed.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline chuddly

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2016, 05:19:10 AM »
There's something you guys need to think about. In your engine filtering you do need to filter out the microscopic particles because you're using that air and burning it and sending it through a compressed section. But in the CVT scenario you're not using the air you're only moving other warm air out and replacing it with cooler air. So trying to filter as small of a particle is not anywhere near as important. And the smaller the particle you try and filter the quicker your air filter will clog and the more you're going to have to try to force air through to keep enough air movement to not overheat your CVT. The reality is you need a oil-less air filter that doesn't filter a small particle and a inline blower. The heat is a much bigger factor in belt wear and CVT destruction than the dirt.
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2016, 08:09:46 AM »
There's something you guys need to think about. In your engine filtering you do need to filter out the microscopic particles because you're using that air and burning it and sending it through a compressed section. But in the CVT scenario you're not using the air you're only moving other warm air out and replacing it with cooler air. So trying to filter as small of a particle is not anywhere near as important. And the smaller the particle you try and filter the quicker your air filter will clog and the more you're going to have to try to force air through to keep enough air movement to not overheat your CVT. The reality is you need a oil-less air filter that doesn't filter a small particle and a inline blower. The heat is a much bigger factor in belt wear and CVT destruction than the dirt.
Exactly my fear on filtering these. The need comes mostly from what effects we see on the clutch's slides and moveable areas from the abrasive actions of the dirt and that it also builds up over time effecting operation. Others use a much larger system for filtration which keeps restriction down for a much longer period. Even with this little single-layer filter patch over the intake grill I found greatly reduced scaring and buildup.



But in only a couple of hours it collects enough that I'm sure flow has slowed. I am convinced there is benefit to filtering most of the abrasive particles out but like you say, the heat from reduced air flow will take a heavier toll on the belt. I think the blower may be a necessary part of this just for that reason however I need 2 more inches for the one I'm looking at and I don't see it. May be easier to put it on the exhaust and pull it through but I don't know if the fan can take the heat...and I have no idea what temps we are talking about. I assume in the low to mid-100s.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Jogon30

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2016, 09:08:24 AM »
Let me know how the progress goes today I decided to mess around with my clutch and man what a mess!!

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2016, 09:25:37 AM »
Wow man..that's almost extreme. But it's exactly what we want to slow or stop from happening. No matter how you look at it, that's hard on everything in there. Even mine with my light riding and that little filter I clearly get BS in to the clutches...not as much as you though...lol:



Oh, by the way, I did cut you one of those little grill filters for yours. It's here on the bench.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 09:27:23 AM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Cosmosdan

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2016, 09:38:07 AM »
That's mine after one ride. Pull out the secondary and look how chewed up the helix is. The prefilter I used did catch a bit, but the fine stuff gets by it and clogs up the rollers and it won't move like it should. Jogon, the filter I sent you is preoiled and might be worth a try.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

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Offline Cosmosdan

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2016, 09:48:43 AM »
NMKAWIRIDER, I was looking at something like that last night. Mine is a little bit different. I'm still worried about water. I think the prefilter fabric might be ok. Maybe add a valve that will let water out on its own to the bottom of the box.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2016, 10:13:18 AM »
NMKAWIRIDER, I was looking at something like that last night. Mine is a little bit different. I'm still worried about water. I think the prefilter fabric might be ok. Maybe add a valve that will let water out on its own to the bottom of the box.
I was thinking about water too but here it wouldn't be a problem however there may well be an advantage to leaving the intake and box on that down angle as it will allow water to drain back out and stay well away from the crown or the peak which is to keep water out of the system... and make it much easier to install and cover old holes...lol.  Maybe something like this. Oh and I'll paint the gray box black to match the plastics:

« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 10:33:36 AM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Cosmosdan

Re: CVT Air Filter Discussion
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2016, 10:21:41 AM »
Sounds like you have a plan. Love to see how it works out. I have a bigger trip coming up so I will hold off until I get back.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet