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Offline chuddly

Clutch questions
« on: July 18, 2016, 07:22:25 AM »
So a few weeks ago I took my clutch apart to change the spring setting from where it was (B1) to B2 to see the difference.  Before I did that I was hitting 72mph and the only reason I wanted to change it was it felt like there is a "flat spot" in the clutching in the mid range and it doesnt pull quite as hard.  So I changed the setting and it felt almost a little slower through the mid range and I was only able to hit 65 mph!?!?!  I thought "well maybe I put something together wrong???".  So this last weekend I pulled it apart again to see if anything looked wrong with it.  From what I can see it all looks ok.  So i thought "maybe my machine doesnt like that spring setting" So i put it back in the B1 position.  I still only top out at 65 mph and mid range is no better.  Any ideas on what im missing here?  Im used to working with OD weights and running them in grease.  Also This is my fist machine with the spring adjustment like it is on these.  The "shoes" where the helix comes down and rides on are a bit worn but they were like that before i took it apart the first time.  Im sure I could figure it out with enough time....but time is hard to find in my life right now so any input would be welcome.  It wouldnt be a big deal to work on it but its such a pain to take it all apart and put it all together just to check something.  Thanks in advance!
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2016, 08:49:08 AM »
Well as you saw there's not much to these but unlike most others, parts like the ramps on the secondary and rollers on the primary are exposed to what flows through the system. Something I noticed on mine was the inconsistent wear pattern on the plate and tracks for the rollers and some flat spots on the rollers that told me these all don't always roll, they slide sometimes and that changes friction levels which has to change shift-out characteristics. I went to the sliders which look to be all wearing evenly and seem more consistent in operation. I also polish the ramps and "shoes" on the secondary and use a whisper of weapons-grade graphite on all these areas including the sliders. Also because I saw the buildup of dust in both clutches and the bottom on the cover I added an extra, single-layer foam filter that sets under the intake grill door for the CVT intake. I don't oil it because I think it would plug too fast and restrict airflow which would increase heat. I just pop it out once in a while along with the OE filter and give it a few slaps. Its always full of stuff...amazing. I think we need to come up with a full intake filter system for these that's easy to clean and large enough to go a couple-hundred miles between cleaning. I think keeping as much of this junk out of there will help these. Nothing we can do about belt dust but..funny that the rest don't have these issues with their clutches and they get flooded with dirt and dust all the time. But they are built... differently. 
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline chuddly

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2016, 11:22:33 AM »
Im wondering about my rollers not rolling right.  What weights do you think i should go with on OD weights?  Im only at ~800ft above sea level and I know your a lot higher in elevation but im just looking for a starting point.  I may order the helix slider shoes while im in there and just replace them.  The odd thing is that I had faster speeds before i touched it.  All i did with the rollers was take them out and blow the dust out of it and put it all back.  They looked normal after this last go round of tinkering also.  The time it takes to get in there is the frustrating part .....Maybe (if i get time) ill run it with the cover off until i can sort out the issue the next time i get in there to mess with it.  I didnt think there was anything to difficult about any of it.  I hate that it doesnt have a grease cap like my yamaha did because then you can grease them and they run SOOOO much smoother in there.  Anyway thanks for the advice!
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2016, 11:42:14 AM »
Im wondering about my rollers not rolling right.  What weights do you think i should go with on OD weights?  Im only at ~800ft above sea level and I know your a lot higher in elevation but im just looking for a starting point.  I may order the helix slider shoes while im in there and just replace them.  The odd thing is that I had faster speeds before i touched it.  All i did with the rollers was take them out and blow the dust out of it and put it all back.  They looked normal after this last go round of tinkering also.  The time it takes to get in there is the frustrating part .....Maybe (if i get time) ill run it with the cover off until i can sort out the issue the next time i get in there to mess with it.  I didnt think there was anything to difficult about any of it.  I hate that it doesnt have a grease cap like my yamaha did because then you can grease them and they run SOOOO much smoother in there.  Anyway thanks for the advice!
Don't run it with the cover off. That shaft needs the support of that bearing in the cover. Without it..bad things happen to the inner bearing and wet clutch.

I would go to the slider but for you I would drop only to about the 24Gram and as you only have the doors and the new tires, you might try the C1 setting. Mine was perfect there before the heavy home made doors and the steel rock sliders. C1 is between B1 and B2.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 12:09:22 PM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Jogon30

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2016, 11:45:53 AM »
Im wondering about my rollers not rolling right.  What weights do you think i should go with on OD weights?  Im only at ~800ft above sea level and I know your a lot higher in elevation but im just looking for a starting point.  I may order the helix slider shoes while im in there and just replace them.  The odd thing is that I had faster speeds before i touched it.  All i did with the rollers was take them out and blow the dust out of it and put it all back.  They looked normal after this last go round of tinkering also.  The time it takes to get in there is the frustrating part .....Maybe (if i get time) ill run it with the cover off until i can sort out the issue the next time i get in there to mess with it.  I didnt think there was anything to difficult about any of it.  I hate that it doesnt have a grease cap like my yamaha did because then you can grease them and they run SOOOO much smoother in there.  Anyway thanks for the advice!


Just a thought? Did you install the belt in the correct position??

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Offline chuddly

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2016, 12:02:05 PM »
Yeah i forgot about that outer support bearing.  Thanks for the reminder.

Jogon30-  Yes the belt is right.  I took it off and hung it on the shock in the same orientation is came off and put it right back on the same way.  Thanks for the thought on it though.  It never hurts to double check.
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline chuddly

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2016, 01:26:28 PM »
what weights do i need to get (part number) for those sliders?
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2016, 01:34:47 PM »
what weights do i need to get (part number) for those sliders?
I got mine from these guys. Here are the 24 gram sliders. Mine were the 22 but I am at 5400 feet and ride up from there.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DR-PULLEY-ROLLERS-30x18-8-rollers-a-set-24G-for-CF-Moto-terralander-800-/401125856414?hash=item5d64f6d49e:g:uAYAAOxyTMhR-4~L&vxp=mtr
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2016, 10:13:24 PM »
Does the belt position make any difference in speed? My belt doesn't have any markings. I'm not sure if it's right or not.
2015 ZForce 800EX EPS
Two Bros. slip-on
Snorkels
Half windshield
30" Monster mayhems on STI HD2s
2" lift
Secondary clocked to C4
1mm Primary Shim 3.25:1 Lowest Ratio
More to come

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2016, 10:37:22 PM »
Does the belt position make any difference in speed? My belt doesn't have any markings. I'm not sure if it's right or not.
Some think it does but it actually shouldn't. It's really the direction of rotation that matters. Some belts..not all.. are designed with the layers or plies laid in a direction for loading only one way. Others are bi-directional but like some radial tires once they have been set in one direction changing the direction makes them separate. The rule of thumb is: If it has an arrow, always point it in the direction of rotation. If no arrow but lettering, position it so you can read that lettering..ie not upside down. If no markings, it can go on either way the first time but mark it with an arrow if you ever take it off so it will be back on the same way.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2016, 10:39:03 PM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Jogon30

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2016, 08:49:47 PM »
what weights do i need to get (part number) for those sliders?
You ever get the issue fixed? That's so strange that the speed would change form one min to the next? Keep us updated!!

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Offline Cosmosdan

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2016, 10:36:35 PM »
Rollers are Dr. Pulley 3018 then what ever weight you want. 25g. is stock. I have some 23g. that I will not be using if someone wants them.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

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Offline Jogon30

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2016, 10:42:11 PM »
Rollers are Dr. Pulley 3018 then what ever weight you want. 25g. is stock. I have some 23g. that I will not be using if someone wants them.
Pm sent

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2016, 10:52:42 PM »
Rollers are Dr. Pulley 3018 then what ever weight you want. 25g. is stock. I have some 23g. that I will not be using if someone wants them.
Pm sent
There ya go..that will help up here.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline gfmoto

Re: Clutch questions
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2016, 04:45:48 PM »
Maybe I haven't had the room to wind this thing out, but I've only got up to 55mph.  There is a green screw under the pedal, thought it's a governor of sorts, but should I take it out??
2015 ZForce 800EX
32" light bar
2-4" spots
Custom Cv guards
DIY 1/2 windshield
UNI air filter
DIY rear window
BOSS ATV 28. 450W speakers
Alpena Rock Lights (tough pods)
2" RZR Bracket lift
Roof extensions
27" Maxxis Corranado Tires
Alpena RGB rock lights
SuperATV Rocksliders
1/2 Doors w/custom paint and graphics