[chuddly]

I haven't been around here (or posted enough) for you guys to get to know me to well but I am a very "speak your mind" type of person.  When I saw CF Moto USA's latest video it drove me batty that they continue to do these goofy and hokey videos that show the CF Moto as more of a golf cart replacement than a serious contender in the SxS and off road market. So me being me I commented on the video saying the following -

@CFMOTO USA ....Wow...I didn't believe that is was possible to make that crappy of a off road video.  Where to start???  By the music I would have assumed you were selling cat litter.  By the LACK of showing the CF Moto I would have thought your were advertising the trails.  Apparently the people who are in charge of your marketing/ videos are not into off roading?!?! Or maybe they are now but only because they are paid to be.  Explain to me why I want to see the drivers head bobbing around??  Or why its all speed up (in case you didn't know that insinuates that the CF Moto is not actually capable of going fast so you have to give the illusion of speed) through the whole video?  Or why we only see the camera mounted in the cab so we only see the trail and not the ACTUAL MACHINE that you are marketing and selling??  You guys need some SERIOUS lesson on what real off roaders want to see.  We want to see the speed of the machine.  We want to see it pushed to the limit.  We want to see the suspension working hard and hear the engine roar.  Your marketing like a Chinese company to Chinese people instead of marketing to an American market.  Seriously if you guys want help  with this stuff get a hold of me and ill fix you up, because from the look of the crap your currently turning out in the marketing/videos they will only hurt sales not help them.

[chuddly]

The guy in charge of marketing replied to me with this - (cliff notes of the statement at the bottom)

Thanks for the pointers, Chad.  I appreciate the feedback.  I do want to address a few of your points, though.

1. I'm in charge of marketing and events at CFMOTO, and I was the person working at the event in Tennessee.  The trail footage you see was shot on my off time when I wasn't running the demo booth or serving BBQ to riders that attended.  I didn't get shots of the machine while I was driving it because I was busy driving it.  I know the footage wasn't Hollywood by any means, but the point was to share the amazing trails and show our riders the cool events and places CFMOTO is going to.  (You didn't like my music, though?  I had fun riffing on the Seven Dwarves on the plane ride home--no apologies there!)

2. You're totally right, it's cool to see machines pushed to their limits.  However, at an event with several thousand people in a relatively small trail area with sheer cliffs, it's not a great idea to rip a two-way blind-corner single track going 40.  Two people were killed at this trail system during the Memorial Day weekend as it was, and I wasn't about to risk adding to the body count to get a cool shot.  We've got to be good stewards to the sport!  Secondly, as a manufacturer, we're held to tighter restrictions by the CPSC than the average consumer.  We aren't allowed to show machines' tires leaving the ground in a non-closed course setting, even to the point that if we show a tire lifting off the ground in a hard corner, we have to axe the shot or risk getting in trouble.  This fall we will be shooting video in a closed setting with a film crew.  Hopefully we will be getting video that is exciting for you in that instance.

3. Why so mad?  The whole point of side by sides and quads is to go outside and have fun.  All the people at this event were having a good time camping, hanging out, and cruising around on their machines.  As far as I saw, nobody gave anybody a hard time about the machine they drove or how they drove it.  We served pulled pork to dudes in RZRs, drove a poker run with a lady in an Arctic Cat, and we generally just soaked in the good vibes of a nice weekend.

4. I just subscribed to your channel.  I haven't watched your videos yet, but if you're passionate about shooting and riding, the next time we're in the same neck of the woods, you're totally welcome to bring your camera and come rip with us.

Cliff notes - "I know what im doing but have to be PC in my answers to you.  Here are a bunch of excuses that dont add up."

[chuddly]

He also left his email address and said to contact him so I did.  His response was a canned and PC response again that tells me he and or CF Moto is not interested in making them selves look any better at all and really dont care what their brand image.  Also in there are SEVERAL lies but you can pick those out for your self. Here are my and his emails

I looked up your YouTube profile and its VERY telling. Not 1 off road video of a quad or SxS and you are not subscribed to a single off road, SxS, quad, or anything to do with motor sports YouTube channel. That tells me you are flat out not really into the sport, so
 you telling me what the sport is all about is a complete JOKE. If you were really into the sport, you would know its about riding AND meeting up with people and making friends. I'm not trying to dog on you to be a jerk but it really is sad to see a company
 like CF Moto not take advantage of some good things (which I will explain shortly) they have going for them because it/you are ignoring them. If i wanted to be a jerk about all of this I would have replied with ALL of this in the YouTube comments to call you
 out on it. Instead I hope to be able to show you where your missing it to help move the brand to a better place.


First lets run through your numbered list you
 left on the YouTube comments...


1.
 If your the guy in charge of Marketing then this is a chance for you to learn a few things about the market your in so pull up a chair. I have done events like the one you were at. There is no "OFF TIME" you are on 24/7 while the event is going except to grab
 a couple hours sleep. You running the demo booth is a good thing. You serving BBQ to the people though...waste of your time. They don't care if you serve it or some guy making $8/hr does and if your taking the time to be in food service then you are not doing
 marketing because those 2 cant be done at the same time. The excuse that " I didn't get any shots of the machine because I was driving it" is bull. Camera positioning and editing. A few shots of the rider is good. But most of them were of you and in case you
 forgot the CF Moto is for sale and not you....so show the product. Don't show us you filming yourself walking around...SHOW THE MACHINE. If you look at the comments on your videos you will see that they are all pretty much saying the same thing, SHOW MORE
 OF THE MACHINE RIDING. Set up a $30 tripod and drive by it in a corner, mount the camera on the outside of the SxS and get shots of it going down the trail. These are simple things to do to show the machine and not you. The video doesn't have to be "Hollywood",
 down to earth is fine but if you watch any other manufactures videos they focus on the machine. Also...your not selling the "amazing trails" remember what your there to sell and promote. The music....once again watch other manufacturers videos. I'm not saying
 that you need all death metal core music (is that even a style??? LOL) but if this is truly your job then the style of music you pick should not be only your style. It should be there to set the mood of the video. Light and happy music/videos are good from
 time to time. But that seems to be all that you guys have put out, and that only reinforces the idea in the SxS industry that CF Moto isn't taken seriously as a good viable brand.


2.
 I was never suggesting to be dangerous or careless but the way you shoot the riding and the music used during that set the scene for how the video is perceived. In your video there were not "thousands of people" in front of you so there must have been some
 time when you could have taken the time to set up a good shot or 2. Don't do the shots next to a cliff...a nice wide stretch of trail with some rollers works fine. I'm also not saying you need to jump the machine 100 ft. but there are things you can do to
 make the machine and the shot look better. First of all you picked the Uforce which has stiffer suspension and is a utility machine. If that's your only choice then that's fine. But to get a good shot of the suspension working you take some preload out of
 the springs and soften it up and back off on the shocks high and low speed compression settings to let the wheel tuck up nicely. This shows the machine has nice suspension that makes for a good ride. You showing your head bobbing around makes it LOOK like
 (weather its true or not) the suspension is harsh and doesn't move well. As a buyer that makes me think "I'm going to have to drop a few grand on new shocks if I buy this thing so its not that good of a deal". I understand that as a manufacturer you are held
 to different standards but you wont convince me that all the other manufacturers videos are illegal and you guys are the only ones going by the rules.


3.
 Like I said in my opening I'm not mad...just frustrated. All the dealers I have talked to have expressed frustration about the CF Moto marketing (not saying its all your fault). If they are frustrated enough by it to talk to a customer about it then you can
 imagine they are NOT happy about it at all. They all say the same thing and if you look at all the comments on your videos you will see the same thing. CF Moto is BLOWING amazing chances at getting the brand out there. The Mud Nationals....almost ALL of the
 videos were you guys sitting around the semi and filming the world going by. Not you riding (except 1 video if i remember right) and when you did it was you guys getting stuck or doing the "mall crawl" through the camp area. There are plenty of guys with CF
 Motos that are willing to take them out and have fun with them if you guys can't with your machines. Reach out to the owners to help you because they are willing to help! The other (and I think the BIGGEST) opportunity blown is the fact that Dirt Trax (look
 them up on YouTube) gave the Zforce 800 an EXCELLENT review. First thing you should be doing is contacting them EVERY DAY (if thats what it takes) and working on getting them to do a build with a CF Moto. Those guys are one of the top voices in the SxS industry
 and your letting their great review of the machine slip through your fingers.


4.
 Thanks for subscribing to my channel. I'm not saying that I do everything right by any means and I'm just a normal guy who does the filming when I have time and on a normal guy budget. But take a look at my videos and some of the places I subscribe to that
 have to do with off roading and get a feel for what everyone is looking for. I would love to come out and ride and film with you guys. I am from Indiana (around Indianapolis) but I travel to Michigan, WV and other places to ride throughout the year. Send me
 a schedule of where you guys will be. Heck an even better idea would be for you to get on
cfmoto-forum.com and post up there with all the owners and put the schedule there. I have 90 acres where I live and am starting on building a MX style track catered to the Zforce 800 (both I and my brother have
 one) and we have about 6-8 miles of trails. Its nothing amazing but its fun riding and once we get it all squared away maybe you guys could come out and shoot there if you want (or hit The Badlands off road park or Haspin Acres off road park).


I know
 this email has gotten quite long winded but I really do want to see CF Moto grow because I think they make a good machine but I can tell you from experience in the off road community that NO ONE knows who you are. I have been riding for 30 years....never heard
 of you until a friend mentioned the brand. I ride with people who have been into the sport for 40-50 yrs and they have never heard of you. I'm VERY close friends with JBS Performance (Look them up...top in the SxS industry) and have stayed at the owners house
 several times....he has never heard of you. That tells me that your not getting the brand name out there AT ALL. A GREAT way to do that would be to have a build off. Have some trusted shops build their take on a CF Moto platform. If the company as a whole
 wont part with the machines to do that then get with the owners who have them already and have get one going there. Offer a decent prize and you'll get plenty of takers to join up (myself included). There are MANY great ways to get the brand out there that
 are just not being done. I hope you don't take all of this as an attack but that you take it as constructive criticism and make changes to make yourself (as the head of marketing) look better. The reality is that this email could have gone on 4x as long to
 say all I was thinking and suggestions that roll through my head but I hope you get the general idea. If you have any questions or comments feel free to email me or call (My cell number was here but i took that out for the forum).


Chad
 Shumaker

Chad-

Again, thank you for your feedback.  I appreciate your candidness, and I hope you’ll continue to enjoy your Z8.  As a young, small company (seven years and fewer than 30 people) community feedback is very valuable, and I’m glad that you have such a strong passion for CFMOTO and for riding in general.  Have a great weekend, and I’m sure we’ll be in touch.

Regards,

Greg Thompson
Marketing and Events Specialist
CFMOTO USA

[chuddly]

First off sorry for the long read but I felt you guys needed to see it.

Summary - after looking at his it only proves to me that he doesnt know what he is doing and he is unwilling to suck up his pride and take suggestions on how to make it better.  I know i  may have been a little harsh on some of the comments but thats just me being honest.  I WISH he did a better job of getting the name out there (I call bull crap on the 7 years and 30 people thing also because the brand has been out there longer than that) because every time i tell someone i have a CF Moto they look at me like im from outter space because they have NEVER heard of it..

[Jogon30]

I seriously doubt he will join this forum! I hope he proves me wrong.

[cfmotoguy]

Hey, man, Greg here.

Like I said in my email response, I really do appreciate you taking the time to comment and give constructive criticism on the videos.  While you may think my responses are just being PC, I like to think of them as being civil and upfront; and I'm being sincere when I say I hope you like your machine, and that I'm taking the things you wrote very seriously.

I'm sorry that you think I'm somehow lying to you, but the fact of the matter is, CFMOTO USA really is a company of less than 30 people, and seven years is actually being pretty generous--we've only been wholly focused on the ATV and SxS market since 2012 in the US.  Internationally, yes, CFMOTO has been around since 1989, but that's a different ball of wax.

I've been watching the forums for some time now, and it's a cool community here.  I have purposely stayed up until now just because it felt gross to invade your guys' space with some sort of corporate presence, but I want to make it known that, since I came to the company in March, one of my goals has been to give you guys as much transparency as possible as to how the company works.

So, feel free to shoot me feedback at any time, ask questions, and I will answer.  I hope it's okay that I'm going to hang around in your space.

[chuddly]

I have to say that Greg that I'm impressed that you signed up here.  And I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone when I say that we WELCOME a factory voice in here because it seems like there is little to no information given out. 

First I will say "sorry" about the calling you a liar. I didnt know you were referencing CF Moto USA which is ~7 yrs old.  I thought you were talking about CF Moto in general (we dont know how the company is structured) which is of course much older than 7 years and 30 people in size.

The reason I said what I said about canned and PC comments was that your responses were short and avoided the entire subject of what was being talked about other then the "Thanks for your comments".  99% of the time that's how people avoid subjects.  Now if you take any of that advice is yet to be seen.  I did just watch your newest video you posted and like i said in the comments MUCH BETTER.  You still need to come up with some of a "less goofy" feel but that one showed the fun of Mud Fest without the hokey /kiddie feel of the other ones.

All in all....hang around.  Get to know the people.  If you can do it work on getting the current owners to do some of your marketing by engaging them in fun activities and contests.  Your job as a marketer is not to do all the work your self but to engage the people and make them want to check out what CF Moto has to offer.  Work smarter not harder.

[cfmotoguy]

I hear you, man.  Not on the defense, but just to explain my thoughts on the Mud Nats vids and the latest Camp vid, when I got to CF, all the videos they had were boilerplate industry stuff, with guitar rock music and shots of guys throwing wood in the back of a UForce or riding fast by the camera in a ZForce.  That stuff is cool, and I know that's what everybody expects--as I explained in my response to you, the closed-course stuff we shoot will still be that type of video.  For the event videos, because we are legally not allowed to show "stunt driving", which includes pretty much any kind of driving that looks good on camera, I made the choice to treat those videos as kind of a video postcard--"wish you were here" stuff.

If y'all don't like that stuff, lesson learned.  I'll be shooting video at Mud Nats in Quadna next weekend, so knowing that I can't show driving where there's drifting, wheels leaving the ground, anybody driving without helmets or protective suits, etc., what do you want the videos to look like?  What kind of music do you like in the background while we're showing the event (keep in mind that licensing is not a thing we can do for videos like this, so I've either got to make the music myself, or I have to use royalty-free tracks)?

[Jogon30]

DANG CFMOTO in the House!!!!!!!!

[gfmoto]

ANY and ALL are a welcome presence. Glad you made joined! I think the banter back and forth is a good thing. Really shows that the Cfmoto customer base is very strong and very supportive of the brand.
I've spoken to Chris Chu a number of times and he's always been more than receptive to my thought, concerns and ideas..
I've sent him the short video I made and some shirt designs. Seemed to be very interested in any marketing ideas and offered any assistance I may need in the future.
So welcome aboard!

[Wheels]

Sup cfmoto guy.

[cfmotoguy]

Sup, Wheels.  Yeah, gfmoto, Chris is Head of Marketing, and my boss.  Great guy, and you're totally right, we love it when people have better ideas than we can come up with--makes us look smart when we steal the ideas and run with them.

[WalkinTarget]

and some shirt designs.

I'm STILL WAITING for my CF Moto T-shirt ... ahem .....  just thought you should know.    And I gotta tell ya, it's harder than I imagined to find a black helmet with a teal graphic design on it.

[Bobbed06]

I hear you, man.  Not on the defense, but just to explain my thoughts on the Mud Nats vids and the latest Camp vid, when I got to CF, all the videos they had were boilerplate industry stuff, with guitar rock music and shots of guys throwing wood in the back of a UForce or riding fast by the camera in a ZForce.  That stuff is cool, and I know that's what everybody expects--as I explained in my response to you, the closed-course stuff we shoot will still be that type of video.  For the event videos, because we are legally not allowed to show "stunt driving", which includes pretty much any kind of driving that looks good on camera, I made the choice to treat those videos as kind of a video postcard--"wish you were here" stuff.

If y'all don't like that stuff, lesson learned.  I'll be shooting video at Mud Nats in Quadna next weekend, so knowing that I can't show driving where there's drifting, wheels leaving the ground, anybody driving without helmets or protective suits, etc., what do you want the videos to look like?  What kind of music do you like in the background while we're showing the event (keep in mind that licensing is not a thing we can do for videos like this, so I've either got to make the music myself, or I have to use royalty-free tracks)?

One of the things that stood out about your Mud Nats Video (which was terribly done) was that I am fairly sure NEITHER riders had helmets on.........So you cant drive aggressively, or actually go into deep mud (what could happen dangerously there) but you ARE allowed to film yourself being irresponsible and NOT wearing helmets?

I am also fairly certian, many of the mud pits, and areas are considered "closed course" at that event.....Just sayin.....If they werent then how did they put on any mud races?

Regardless, It is great to have some CF Moto insiders here. Just be sure to be up front, relay dealer concerns and customer feedback to the proper channels and help resolve any issues with units efficiently without hassle to the customer and you all will do fine.

[cfmotoguy]

So, this is where legality for riders vs. legality for manufacturers gets murky.  The grounds for Mud Nationals in Texas is a private property.  Therefore, riders can drink and drive, not wear helmets or seatbelts, and generally do whatever they want.

What "closed-course" means, is every machine in the video is permitted, every driver has signed waivers, and there are no machines present outside of those that are specifically there for the shoot.

Being new to the industry, I was not in compliance with CPSC standards when I showed people in CFMOTO vehicles not wearing helmets in the Mud Nats videos.  We were warned.  From here on out, I've got to be way more careful about that stuff.  We weren't doing anything illegal, but we can't show it in a video, if that makes sense.