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Offline Sockman

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #60 on: May 29, 2018, 09:16:23 PM »
So what's the take away here?  The stock springs are the problem?  I have the EX, but have the same problem.  The ride is just so stiff, and the pre-load is dialed in way tight.  Don't want to give up the ground clearance, though.
2017 Zforce 800 EX
UNI filter, SuperATV high clearance a-arms, half windshield, nerf bars, Windjammer rear window, overhead storage, Bighorns, Bandit suspension Gen3 shocks, rear camera

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Online NMKawierider

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #61 on: May 29, 2018, 09:29:22 PM »
Then.. you have no choice but to live with it. Any suspension always works best when set to operate in the middle of it's swing or travel...but in most cases that's just not enough ground clearance for some folks so they crank it up or add a lift kit and raise it up. No matter what.. that takes more force..more pressure on the springs so..the smooth ride is lost...well as smooth as these things can be with the stock shocks anyway...lol. A better shock will have more travel and more coils with more consistent resistance throughout the stroke. And apparently most aftermarket shocks offer much longer stroke so...maybe you can have your ground clearance and decent ride as well. It'll just take 3K to fix.. :o




 
2015 Z Force 800 53/Trail EPS
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage |7- 9.7" GPS Systems | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front | Cage Chop Mod

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Sockman

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #62 on: May 29, 2018, 09:43:18 PM »
I haven't messed with the preload on my springs since I bought it.  Last week I did try to back the preload off, but the miserable tool won't grip the adjuster ring. 

Just curious if someone is saying, in plain terms, that the springs are culprit, and the aftermarket springs are the answer.

2017 Zforce 800 EX
UNI filter, SuperATV high clearance a-arms, half windshield, nerf bars, Windjammer rear window, overhead storage, Bighorns, Bandit suspension Gen3 shocks, rear camera

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Offline ctdls

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #63 on: May 29, 2018, 09:50:39 PM »
I'm going to be nanny for a moment as I was caught on this. The shock body clickers show "S" & "F' with a direction to click. This does "NOT" mean Soft & Firm.

As an example if your clicking to "S" thinking it will be softer that is not the case.

When you click towards "S" it really means "SLOW" that is slow to compress. Or slow to rebound if you are adjusting the rebound clicker.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 09:57:09 PM by ctdls »
ZF 800 LX Trail, stock for now.......not for long.

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Online NMKawierider

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #64 on: May 29, 2018, 10:09:48 PM »
Yeah...Fast and Slow. I always think of it as a needle valve..which it is..allowing oil to pass through it...Fast-er or Slow-er. :)

 
2015 Z Force 800 53/Trail EPS
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage |7- 9.7" GPS Systems | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front | Cage Chop Mod

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline glenlivet

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #65 on: May 30, 2018, 09:39:24 AM »
I learned with the Elka's I bought for my KQ that even when you buy snazzy shocks with great repute, if you crank up the preload so that the shock/spring unit is working at the top of its range then you have wasted the whole exercise.
I did that, the shocks arrived with the preload rings all the way down so I merrily cranked and cranked, preloading until the machine would ride nice and high. And I found that the goddam Elkas were no better than the shocks I took off! What had I paid all that money for?

Then one day the light bulb came on when I read someone mention to think about those Baja racing buggies. Watch a video, they ride in the center of their suspension travel. The cab floats along and the wheels go up and down like a spider's legs on a hot plate.

It hit me (no pun) If your shocks are wound up tight for ground clearance, then when you go over a pothole the wheel has nowhere to extend into that hole, it's already topped out, no extension left. So the whole machine must drop on that side, then when it hits the other side of the pothole the machine hammers into it and the quad gets jarred back up. Might as well be riding a hardtail Harley. We get so hung up on ground clearance we forget that the suspension has to work. (we can just get a good skidplate and when it has to touch bottom, no sweat, let er hit. :) )

But then when you only have two inches of shock travel to work within, how much can you really do?

I intend to get some Elka's and I'll report what I find. A couple of members have already reported that Elkas on CFM products are a night and day difference.
For a nation to believe it can tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and believing he can raise himself by pulling on the handle - Winston Churchill

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Offline glenlivet

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #66 on: May 30, 2018, 09:43:18 AM »
Sockman, an easy way to adjust threaded collar shock preload without a tool is to jack the machine up so the shock is as long as it gets, back the lock ring out of the way and then glove up and grab the spring with your mitt, turn the whole spring and adjuster ring together.
Glove because that adjuster ring with its notches can be hard on the hand. If yours turns easy enough maybe don't need the glove. :)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 09:49:41 AM by glenlivet »
For a nation to believe it can tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and believing he can raise himself by pulling on the handle - Winston Churchill

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Offline Sockman

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #67 on: May 30, 2018, 01:56:18 PM »
Sockman, an easy way to adjust threaded collar shock preload without a tool is to jack the machine up so the shock is as long as it gets, back the lock ring out of the way and then glove up and grab the spring with your mitt, turn the whole spring and adjuster ring together.
Glove because that adjuster ring with its notches can be hard on the hand. If yours turns easy enough maybe don't need the glove. :)

Great advice, I'll try that.  The tool needs a little work in the grinder and i think it'll work fine, but I agree it makes sense to take the load off the machine.
2017 Zforce 800 EX
UNI filter, SuperATV high clearance a-arms, half windshield, nerf bars, Windjammer rear window, overhead storage, Bighorns, Bandit suspension Gen3 shocks, rear camera

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Offline spider1

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2018, 08:58:02 AM »
I looked on the CFMoto site and they list Elka stage 3 shocks for the rear with part number 30596 and a price of $862.49. Will I see a huge difference with just the springs as described earlier

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Offline doug80638

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2018, 11:42:38 AM »

Not likely.

The problem is the short stroke of the shock (2.5") on suspension that can travel over 6.5".

Replacing the shocks is the only way to increase suspension travel.

I increased my pre-load by 3/4" so that there would be more travel on the impact/compression stroke, and that appears to have lessened the overall roughness that occurred when the shock would hit the stops after an inch of travel. Much less bottoming out on the rough stuff too, so that was a bonus. Dropping tire pressure to 9 psi helps too.

2017 Zforce 800 - Red
SuperATV Flip windshield
Tusk soft rear window
Uni-Filter foam air filter
Bandit springs

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Offline glenlivet

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #70 on: May 31, 2018, 05:08:26 PM »
Just curious if someone is saying, in plain terms, that the springs are culprit, and the aftermarket springs are the answer.
The springs are a symptom, not the problem. They are hard because they have to be, the travel of the stock shock ram is so short they need a strong spring so it doesn't bottom out instantly and frequently.

Putting a new spring on that shock is like putting a new dress on an old ho.
For a nation to believe it can tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and believing he can raise himself by pulling on the handle - Winston Churchill

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Online NMKawierider

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #71 on: May 31, 2018, 06:26:41 PM »
Just curious if someone is saying, in plain terms, that the springs are culprit, and the aftermarket springs are the answer.
The springs are a symptom, not the problem. They are hard because they have to be, the travel of the stock shock ram is so short they need a strong spring so it doesn't bottom out instantly and frequently.

Putting a new spring on that shock is like putting a new dress on an old ho.
Yeah and if the stroke is that short and you put a softer spring on it..you might be in for an unwelcome surprise. I had one of my rear springs off the shock once and could swear there was more then 2" movement..might have to pull one down just for GP again. Maybe it was a front one..
2015 Z Force 800 53/Trail EPS
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage |7- 9.7" GPS Systems | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front | Cage Chop Mod

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline glenlivet

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2018, 10:45:10 AM »
Screw it, I'm pulling the trigger, going with the Elkas.  8)
For a nation to believe it can tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and believing he can raise himself by pulling on the handle - Winston Churchill

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Online NMKawierider

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2018, 10:58:04 AM »
Screw it, I'm pulling the trigger, going with the Elkas.  8)
Well, the ride WILL be greatly improved..there's no way it can't. I want to...I just am having a hard time convincing myself I want/need to spend that kind of money on this thing or wait until I get my next one..
2015 Z Force 800 53/Trail EPS
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage |7- 9.7" GPS Systems | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front | Cage Chop Mod

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Sockman

Re: ZForce 800 trail suspension upgrade
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2018, 01:26:21 PM »
Screw it, I'm pulling the trigger, going with the Elkas.  8)

Congrats.  I have the EX, so I think the travel is a bit longer than the trail.  I've also looked up the Elkas and they're $999 for a set of rears, and I think the same for fronts (stage 3s).  I think for the trail I saw them for $750/pair.
2017 Zforce 800 EX
UNI filter, SuperATV high clearance a-arms, half windshield, nerf bars, Windjammer rear window, overhead storage, Bighorns, Bandit suspension Gen3 shocks, rear camera