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Offline HDHP

Wet Clutch
« on: December 11, 2017, 06:18:36 AM »
Hi guys,
I was watching a YouTube video where the CF Moto rep said that Z800 has a Wet Clutch. Like the Kawasaki Trex and the Yamaha warrior.
Now I am confused...  My understanding of a ''Wet Clutch" is it has Fiber & Steel plates in a clutch basket with inner and outer hub and springs. Like on Motocross Bikes.
Is this what the ZForce 800 has? I thought they had a Primary and secondary clutch with a belt that is called a CVT?
I have a Kawasaki Brute Force 750 and it has a Primary, Secondary and a Belt. I have changed the springs in the Primary and the secondary to get it to my liking. And I have seen NMK change the tension on his clutch for his Z800. Or was he referring to the U Force??

Please Help.

Thanks Guys

HDHP

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Offline REDRIDER

Re: Wet Clutch
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2017, 07:00:25 AM »
It does have a CVT but it also has a centrifugal wet clutch behind the primary. The CVT part of the primary doesn't start turning until the engine rpm come up and then the wet clutch grabs and starts to turn the CVT. These aren't typical CVT like a snowmobile or RZR, there is always tension on these belts and the wet clutch is what starts the engagement, the primary hold all the way open with no belt tension then slap shut when you hit the gas like on a snowmobile or RZR. It's kinda like a centrifugal clutch on a gokart with a CVT as the chain. Good for crawling no belt slippage.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Wet Clutch
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2017, 09:13:06 AM »
Yeah, think of a centrifugal clutch like the old mini bikes or go carts except in oil....and a little stouter. They drive the shaft that drives the CVT primary. Here's a pic.

http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/BFFreak_2008/media/cGF0aDpDRk1vdG8gWkZvcmNlIDgwMC9DRk1vdG8gRGF0YSBSZWxhdGVkL1o4IENsdXRjaCBDb21wbGV0ZV96cHNydnR4aTMxbS5qcGc=/?ref=

 
2015 Z Force 800 53/Trail EPS
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Offline glenlivet

Re: Wet Clutch
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2017, 10:14:32 AM »
That's a good explanation.
Another way to say it is that a CVT (Or even Honda's hydrostatic transmission) needs a way to be put into a gear and still allow the machine to idle at a standstill, and to provide drive when the motor's RPM is increased. It needs this system to provide drive in the speed range between completely stopped and the speed at which the CVT is able to drive the machine with no more slippage needed.
An automatic equipped car accomplishes this with a hydraulic torque converter.
An ATV or snowmobile accomplishes this with one of two types of drive, the constant tension system and the 'belt slammer'.

The former has a belt that is under constant and regulated tension and uses a centrifugal clutch that is in the oil containing cases (wet) to accommodate stopped and slow speed operation. The belt slammers allow the drive clutch to continue to open after the driven clutch has reached its limit, causing the belt to become slack when at a stop. When the motor is revved in gear the drive clutch closes and takes up the slack using the belt itself as a clutch that slips until enough speed is reached that no more slip is needed.
For the most part, with the exception of Yamaha it looks like the ORV makers who first made snowmobiles took the drive system they were accustomed to on the snow machines, and applied it to ATV's and SxS.

Personally I think that the wet clutch system has been unfairly maligned in some sense, due to a belief that the wet clutch robs power. Sellers of a 'wet clutch delete' certainly propose that notion.
As I've described, some slip is obviously necessary with a CVT to get the machine into gear and start the machine moving without an enormous lurch and stall, and to accommodate very slow going.
To my mind it's a bit puzzling how we should think that a slipping wet clutch would rob power but a slipping belt would not.  ???
A belt slammer equipped machine gives the impression of permitting more power because by it's nature when given sudden throttle while at a stop the belt slammer lets the drive clutch start to spin and rev up before the belt is grabbed, giving its machine a snappier launch. All other things being equal, a belt slammer equipped machine will get the holeshot on a constant tension machine, no question about it.
This snap can be a disadvantage though when the rider is negotiating a technical area that requires fine control, or even when loading the machine onto a trailer or truck where it can be difficult to go just a little bit. In these places a wet clutch equipped machine shines.
Once lockup speed is reached on both styles neither has advantage over the other.

Different strokes n' folks.  8)

In neither system is it a good idea to travel very slowly while in a high range, nor for very long. We become accustomed to driving our cars where very slow speed is accommodated by a torque converter pushing oil around. A torque converter can do that all day and all night and nothing wears, just oil squirting through tight spaces. The ATV is different. When you go very slow something is wearing, the wet clutch in one case or the belt itself in the other. Wear, proportionate to speed, is greater when going slow in high range.
I actually saw a woman in a group ride one day astride a Polaris and she was stopped and talking to people standing beside the trail. She was on an upslope and the machine was making a droning sound with the motor at a couple of thousand RPM, while she was stopped. She was using the throttle instead of a brake to hold the machine from rolling back as she sat there talking!
Lady, do you realize you are doing a smokey brakestand on your drive belt?
Of course if she had been on a constant tension machine she'd have been wearing the wet clutch instead. Bottom line though is, don't do these things. The systems are designed to handle slip but less is better.
Should be part of the dealer's speech on delivery, that they aren't like cars.

Cheers.  ;D
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 10:24:38 AM by glenlivet »
For a nation to believe it can tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and believing he can raise himself by pulling on the handle - Winston Churchill

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Offline HDHP

Re: Wet Clutch
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2017, 09:33:14 PM »
Well put Glenlivet! Now I totally understand Thank You!!!

HDHP