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Offline Cosmosdan

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2015, 12:08:44 AM »
Sounds like you found the major flaw. Every machine has one, what the company does now will tell you if they will stay in this market. Every machine I have owned has had an issue of some sort. The mfg corrected the problem most of the time with updated parts in the following year or gen. If Cfmoto takes note of this, it might just be a black eye and not a death blow. Can you take pictures of the issue and a fix if you have one. There are enough owners out there that this would help.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

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emersonsc

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2015, 03:17:47 PM »
Sounds like you found the major flaw. Every machine has one, what the company does now will tell you if they will stay in this market. Every machine I have owned has had an issue of some sort. The mfg corrected the problem most of the time with updated parts in the following year or gen. If Cfmoto takes note of this, it might just be a black eye and not a death blow. Can you take pictures of the issue and a fix if you have one. There are enough owners out there that this would help.

Even though this is two in a row now, I was told by CFMoto "you are the only dealer having this issue. We will look into possibly changing air filter venders, but we can tell you right now there wont be a redesign of the air box. It works every where else, and no one else is having the problems you are. You may want to look into trying different air filters and then selling your machines with those instead of the stock CFMoto air filter"

I was a bit thrown back by that. I KNOW my two machines here arent the only ones having issue with the air boxes and the amount of sand and dirt they take in. The intake is a MAJOR flaw. It opens to the rear of the machine, and the opening is right above the motor where you have two drive wheels kicking up sand, plus any debris thats shot out of the clutch cover outlet, which points right towards the rear front of the motor.

By the way, it was infact the connecting rod bearings that went. The rear cylinder has a bunch of up and down play, and is sloppy side to side. The front rod is set up.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2015, 04:02:39 PM »
It would be easy enough to just put in one of those Unifilter units but I have a concern about surface area. Most 750-850 cc class manufacturers that use a foam filter have one 2-3 times the surface area the Uni has and of course any pleated filter although small, offers an actual much larger over all filter surface area...one closer to what the others use in a stock foam type. And we all know if the air volume is forced through too small an area, filtering is reduced. The larger the filter surface area, the slower the air flows through and the better the filtering. So, the search is on. I'm even looking into a complete airbox replacement because I guess unlike most others...says CFMoto, my air box doesn't all ways seal to the gasket. Fortunately I am not always in deep water here...lol 
2015 Z Force 800 53/Trail EPS
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage |7- 9.7" GPS Systems | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front | Cage Chop Mod

My Videos On YouTube

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emersonsc

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2015, 08:39:05 PM »
What I don't understand is their unwillingness to update the crap intake.

Every other manufacturer has routed their intakes to the front of the vehicle. The RZR is ducted to the front. The Rangers too. Hell, yamaha eventually ducted the Rhino to the front.

Even Hisun/Massimo did this with their Knight model.

The idea of an intake sucking hot filthy  air directly above the engine is just bonkers to me. The rest of the industry has caught on and updated. These guys won't budge.

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Offline Herby

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2015, 10:18:42 PM »
Well I remember telling my dealer about the leaking water pump seals and they said they had never heard of it (X8), on the third replacement they said they were getting others in with the same fault now, CF Moto then issues a bulletin on it to the Aus distributers.

Sounds like you found the major flaw. Every machine has one, what the company does now will tell you if they will stay in this market. Every machine I have owned has had an issue of some sort. The mfg corrected the problem most of the time with updated parts in the following year or gen. If Cfmoto takes note of this, it might just be a black eye and not a death blow. Can you take pictures of the issue and a fix if you have one. There are enough owners out there that this would help.

Even though this is two in a row now, I was told by CFMoto "you are the only dealer having this issue. We will look into possibly changing air filter venders, but we can tell you right now there wont be a redesign of the air box. It works every where else, and no one else is having the problems you are. You may want to look into trying different air filters and then selling your machines with those instead of the stock CFMoto air filter"

I was a bit thrown back by that. I KNOW my two machines here arent the only ones having issue with the air boxes and the amount of sand and dirt they take in. The intake is a MAJOR flaw. It opens to the rear of the machine, and the opening is right above the motor where you have two drive wheels kicking up sand, plus any debris thats shot out of the clutch cover outlet, which points right towards the rear front of the motor.

By the way, it was infact the connecting rod bearings that went. The rear cylinder has a bunch of up and down play, and is sloppy side to side. The front rod is set up.

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Offline Scottzforce800

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2015, 06:44:26 PM »
I have same type failure. Started out being hard to start and few days later began to knock. Took to dealer they found failed rod bearing as well. Rear cylinder as well. I don't believe it is due to dirt however. Don't get me wrong there is a lot of dust enters the air box but after removing the filter the intake after the filter is clean. Usually a rod bearing failure is the result of lack of lubrication. Dirt usually causes scoured Pistons. I am very concerned due to the fact that mine should have had neither of those issues (dirt or lack of lubrication). I have worked at a Detroit Diesel Distributor for 28 years and know that once you start having engine failures prematurely of this nature without a true cause it is bound to happen again. I owe a lot of money on this machine and I am worried!!!!
2015 Zforce 800EX

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2015, 07:10:52 PM »
I have same type failure. Started out being hard to start and few days later began to knock. Took to dealer they found failed rod bearing as well. Rear cylinder as well. I don't believe it is due to dirt however. Don't get me wrong there is a lot of dust enters the air box but after removing the filter the intake after the filter is clean. Usually a rod bearing failure is the result of lack of lubrication. Dirt usually causes scoured Pistons. I am very concerned due to the fact that mine should have had neither of those issues (dirt or lack of lubrication). I have worked at a Detroit Diesel Distributor for 28 years and know that once you start having engine failures prematurely of this nature without a true cause it is bound to happen again. I owe a lot of money on this machine and I am worried!!!!

That is concerning. How many miles do you have on it now? I'm at a little over 300 and already hearing what sounds like valves in need of adjustment from the top ends.
2015 Z Force 800 53/Trail EPS
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage |7- 9.7" GPS Systems | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front | Cage Chop Mod

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline mayor hal

Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2015, 07:36:20 PM »
Me too! :o
2015 CF Moto 800 ZForce 53"
UNI Air Filter

Gone but not forgotten!

2012 Can Am 650 Max XT
2007 Can Am 500 Max XT

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Offline Scottzforce800

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2015, 08:31:41 PM »
I have 1900 miles on unit with several services already done. However I have only had machine since middle of May. I ride a lot, after work two times a week and every weekend. My weekend rides are usually 60 to 90 miles. Great places to ride where I live. It does recommend to run valve adjustment around 500 miles, so you might want to do that. Intake valves (.006 to .014) exhaust (.011 to .019). These are great machines and I have went everywhere the 20,000 dollar machines have went (some places easier). I did not have any problems at all untIl the hard starting then knocking a couple days after that.
2015 Zforce 800EX

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2015, 08:41:04 PM »
Thanks. Saves me from looking it up. Still have the inside panel off and think I'll check them tomorrow. Also because of all this filter-talk, I am going to install a mushroom style filter on my cold air intake..just for safety. It will be easy to clean and with it the one in the airbox will stay clean a lot longer. Besides, some areas we ride in have talc, and that's murder on filters and it gets through..machines too.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 08:50:24 PM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 53/Trail EPS
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage |7- 9.7" GPS Systems | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front | Cage Chop Mod

My Videos On YouTube

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Bpraim

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2015, 05:49:16 AM »
Scott, check your oil filter. Is it stuffed with fillings?
The early 14s has a problem with plain bearings and Oil relief valve.
Would starve and Dino.
I will see if I still have the update about this.
You guys might have some of the older units.

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emersonsc

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2015, 04:10:37 PM »
UPDATE:

What. A. Mess.

A close family friend had bought a 2015 ZForce 800 in Black from us shortly after I took him for a ride in our unit. At 720 miles, he had a hard time starting it, and when it did run, it couldn't get out of its shadow. Brought it in, and he too had dropped the rear cylinder. 60psi of compression in the rear, 150psi in the front. Air box was full of blow by, but his intake was spotless. With his, we have NO idea why his went down. His rear connecting rod had gone as well. CFMoto sent us a motor for his.

CFMoto was insistant we rebuild the top end on our which we did. How ever, we got less than 2 miles down the road when we lost power and had a bad clank from the motor. Just as we had warned CFMoto would happen, the rear connecting rod bearing took a shite, which wasted a BUNCH of time doing a top end rebuild. They sent a replacement motor for ours that day.

Now here comes the fun.

They don't have any Z8 engines in stock, only the X8 engines. I was told the only difference was the intake, and the side fan. Well, theres a LOT more different. The oil lines are different, and the oil temp sensor is in a location where one of the hard oil lines is, which means you can't just the oil lines over. The hole for the temp sensor is smaller, which means the X8 engine uses a different casting all together. The X8 also has a stator that uses a much shorter pigtail, so we ended up having to swap the entire left side crankcase cover. As far as the oil lines go, we just have to extend the oil hose going to the back side of the motor to make up for the hard line that was facing the rear of the unit.

After ALL that work and getting the motor back in, we fire it up. Oil pressure sensor light is flashing. minutes later, still flashing, and the temp is rising quickly. We shut the unit off, make sure there's no air build up in the coolant system. All is right there. Thinking maybe its the sending unit, we replace the one that came with the engine with the one off the old one. Fire it up, still flashing, temp runs right back up. We shout it down, and remove the from cylinder valve cover, fire it back up, and no oil is making its way up to the head. Take out the sensor, put our pressure gauge on, and fire it up again. NOTHING. Brand new motor… NO OIL PRESSURE.

I had to tear that motor out, break it back down, take the 2nd motor which was meant for our unit, tear that one down, convert it over, and put it in the customers unit. That one built up pressure just fine.

CFMoto told me it was most likely the oil pressure regulator which was behind the clutch housing on the left side, so I tore that motor down, check the pressure regulator, and its fine. So, we STILL don't know why the 1st NEW ENGINE has no oil pressure, and I still have my unit, and month later, with no engine.

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emersonsc

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2015, 04:14:13 PM »
We also found all of this garbage inside the 1st new engine. The water ports were full of a green semi-solid gelatin:



Here's our CFMoto Z/X8 Engine bone yard… The one on the cherry picker is our engine (bad crank, 620 miles) the one to the right is the 1st new engine they sent us (no oil pressure, brand new) and the one in the rear is the engine off our customers unit (bad crank, melted down rear cylinder, 720 miles)

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Offline mayor hal

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2015, 06:15:23 PM »
Holy crap....this certainly doesn't make me feel to well about buying my CF Moto!
Maybe, just maybe Jason had the right idea! Keep us posted on what takes place on this situation or any other situations that may arise!
2015 CF Moto 800 ZForce 53"
UNI Air Filter

Gone but not forgotten!

2012 Can Am 650 Max XT
2007 Can Am 500 Max XT

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Warning about K&N Air Filters
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2015, 06:54:22 PM »
Yeah..boy..getting that queasy feeling in my stomach too. And i'm just getting mine to run like it should..probably go "BOOM" next.
2015 Z Force 800 53/Trail EPS
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage |7- 9.7" GPS Systems | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front | Cage Chop Mod

My Videos On YouTube