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Offline WalkinTarget

Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« on: July 10, 2016, 12:10:26 PM »
I got a chance on Thursday to sit in the Arctic Cat Wildcat Trail, a 50" competitor to the Zforce 800 Trail. I knew going in that it was a smaller ride, and weighing in at 990 lbs it comes in over 200 lbs less than the ZForce or the Rzr Trail, and that 700 twin, while at a 100-200cc disadvantage, really can pump out the power (60+, lets call it 65) while the Team Rapid Response clutch put it all down well to the rear wheels. It offers a very good power to weight ratio. So, that led me to research the hell out of it, just like I did with the CF Moto, finding its strengths and its weaknesses.

The one thing that almost every owner has done to their Cat is tip it over. And it always occurs, almost without fail, when someone tries doing donuts with it. Now, I am no spring chicken, and I don't ride fast, but I find that I can easily do a quick 180° turn in the woods by just leaning up on my quad and gassing it, bringing the rear right around and I'm ready to go. Are the Zforce Trails also very tippy, as I have not read a single thread about someone tipping one over. Is it just something a quad rider needs to adjust to when learning how to drive a SxS ? I can tell you that the second mod I'd do (after the air filter) is to add 1.5" spacers all around, so it isn't a great concern to me, but I'm still curious if the Cat is just tippy by nature or any 50" ride is just tippy based on their narrow dimensions.

I have been riding long enough to remember the lawsuits filed against Yamaha for their 50" Rhino utility, and in fact I think there were 46 deaths attributed to accidents when it tipped over, so I guess I need to keep that in mind on whatever SxS I decide on. I always thought CF Moto offered a lot of bang for the buck, but they aren't the only one to sell 'em at a low price. See the Wildcat Sport listed here for an example -> http://mlspowersports.com/Showroom/Blowout-Specials. That's a 60" Sport model with Elka shocks, half doors and 13" of ground clearance for under 9,000 !!  Ohh, and no tax in KY as well :P   I really wish I could justify a 60" model for PA trails  :(
2014 Arctic Cat Wildcat Trail - 27" GBC Dirt Commanders, soft top, quarter windshield, AC front and rear steel bumpers, Bandit springs, EZ Ryde Midnight Edition exhaust, Plano 1719 storage box, Speedwerx throttle and secondary clutch spring, heated seats, Polaris seat slider.

Sold: 2006 King Quad 700 - 27" ITP 589 M/S tires, ITP rims

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Offline Aurora_Lance

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2016, 01:13:30 PM »
My brother is a dumb ass, and does donuts all the time in his RZR, Never seen it tipped over once. Might be how the suspension is set up in the Wildcat trail?
I'm a 400 lb guy, and I've sat in the wildcat and rzr. The rzr is a much more roomier feel, but yes it weighs more and at 900CC goes faster off the start.
My bro says he can turn into a SE, just by buying the different arms for all four corners and attachments. But he likes going through places his buddies 60" machines can't go.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2016, 03:05:05 PM »
Yes, all 50" machines are far more "Tippy" then any 59+" machines...even the Z8 Trail/53. I have had mine up on two wheels a number of times doing donuts and if not for a quick response, it would have gone over...and yes, I did set mine on it's side once. That was the reason for the 1.5" spacers all the way around. It didn't cure it, its just helped some. Maintaining a flat trajectory is key so keeping them low and with tires that will slide sideways rather then bite-in like my Reapers do is the answer for those that want to power-slide and do donuts a lot. Of course the wider the better but not so good for 50" trails. 
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Jogon30

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2016, 04:06:56 PM »
My brother in law has a wildcat trail and like you all said they tip first day out he bought it he flipped the dang thing lol. But I do have to say they are fast!! I have upgraded my trail with a two brothers pipe and EJK also have 23.something gram sliders and set clutch to B2 . And no joke still think the wildcat is faster we will be do some racing at the end of this month and I will post video  I do know that I raced him stock and he smoked me ! Then set the clutch to B2 stock rollers and we took off the same but he quickly lost me. Will post video of race if I lose I'm a be going to nmkawi's house to get this clutch moved lol
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 04:09:00 PM by Jogon30 »

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Offline WalkinTarget

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2016, 04:45:12 PM »
I really wanted to find it easier to like the Wildcat Trail. I assumed it would be a cinch to find a plethora of aftermarket parts to mod it to my hearts content, but imagine my surprise when I found they don't even offer a shackle lift kit for it yet ! Only spring lifts, and that makes for a horribly stiff ride. The first recommended mod is to put in a harness bar and 4 point belts, no doubt to aide in the eventual rollover that seems to happen to every owner.

So to directly compare them, I still say I like the looks of the CF Moto over the other two. It has the best instrument cluster, hands down. It isn't even a fair comparison. With the Rzr and the Cat, you see a couple things on the round digital gauge, you just have to cycle thru them to see what you need to see. The CF Moto offers everything you need on one gauge cluster. The Cat does a horrible job keeping the mud off of you, as the fenders just do not block anything - it all flies into the cabin. You will compound your vision issues by adding a windshield, as now all that mud and debris will obscure your view. There are aftermarket fenders that address this issue, but when you add the 1.5" spacers, you will STILL get some mud tossed on you.

I will be running the stock tires if I go with the CF Moto - it just makes no sense to not use them when they do a respectable job. I figure they'd last me 2 years minimum. I'm currently liking the SuperATV Intimidator tires, a very aggressive tread pattern with tons of sidewall bite, so I will have to be aware of that when the time comes to buy new tires. After a nasty accident at Trevorton on the coal hill I avoid hills, so it only takes one bad spill to make you aware of how dangerous each and every ride can be if you aren't totally aware of your environment. 
2014 Arctic Cat Wildcat Trail - 27" GBC Dirt Commanders, soft top, quarter windshield, AC front and rear steel bumpers, Bandit springs, EZ Ryde Midnight Edition exhaust, Plano 1719 storage box, Speedwerx throttle and secondary clutch spring, heated seats, Polaris seat slider.

Sold: 2006 King Quad 700 - 27" ITP 589 M/S tires, ITP rims

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2016, 05:28:28 PM »
My brother in law has a wildcat trail and like you all said they tip first day out he bought it he flipped the dang thing lol. But I do have to say they are fast!! I have upgraded my trail with a two brothers pipe and EJK also have 23.something gram sliders and set clutch to B2 . And no joke still think the wildcat is faster we will be do some racing at the end of this month and I will post video  I do know that I raced him stock and he smoked me ! Then set the clutch to B2 stock rollers and we took off the same but he quickly lost me. Will post video of race if I lose I'm a be going to nmkawi's house to get this clutch moved lol
Let's not forget the wildcat is several hundred pounds lighter then our Motos and as I found out..80 lbs makes a big difference in power on these 800s. Next time you race, make yourself as light as possible....no doors, no extra seat, nothing in storage..hell take the roof off....take the second air filter element out...

I think you'll smoke'em. 
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline Jogon30

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2016, 09:15:13 PM »
Lol lol nmkawi.. Got to say I was rideing his wildcat trail this past weekend in some pretty rocky stuff I did not have my Cfmoto I had the family with me so I took out my Polaris ranger crew and his felt pretty nice I'm not sure if they come stock with fox shocks but his has them and I can honestly say felt pretty nice. And nmkawi I'm going to be takein my clutch apart soon just to clean and check things out it don't feel as strong as it was when I first changed it to the B2 maybe it's all in my head I don't know but I will be calling you if you don't mind if anything don't look right maybe pics and email thanks bud before hand.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2016, 11:53:39 PM »
Lol lol nmkawi.. Got to say I was rideing his wildcat trail this past weekend in some pretty rocky stuff I did not have my Cfmoto I had the family with me so I took out my Polaris ranger crew and his felt pretty nice I'm not sure if they come stock with fox shocks but his has them and I can honestly say felt pretty nice. And nmkawi I'm going to be takein my clutch apart soon just to clean and check things out it don't feel as strong as it was when I first changed it to the B2 maybe it's all in my head I don't know but I will be calling you if you don't mind if anything don't look right maybe pics and email thanks bud before hand.
Sure, no problem.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline WalkinTarget

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2016, 05:40:31 AM »
so I took out my Polaris ranger crew and his felt pretty nice I'm not sure if they come stock with fox shocks but his has them and I can honestly say felt pretty nice.
Polaris likes to shuffle their lineup, and what they do is offer a 'Limited' edition that features the Fox shocks, but they don't offer it year round on every model - so you may not even find a Limited edition Ranger listed for the next calendar year release for that model. My co-worker went to look at that Ranger with Fox shocks and they told him that's just the way it works with Polaris. All manufacturers play the angles to make the sales - Arctic Cat just had their summer promotion end on June 30, and that entailed a rebate on every model. I inquired about the next rebate period and they told me it would again be in the summer. They will offer you the 0% financing in Spring, but once that promotion ends, they then offer the rebate promotion, so you either get a price cut on the front end or the back end.
2014 Arctic Cat Wildcat Trail - 27" GBC Dirt Commanders, soft top, quarter windshield, AC front and rear steel bumpers, Bandit springs, EZ Ryde Midnight Edition exhaust, Plano 1719 storage box, Speedwerx throttle and secondary clutch spring, heated seats, Polaris seat slider.

Sold: 2006 King Quad 700 - 27" ITP 589 M/S tires, ITP rims

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Offline chuddly

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2016, 07:26:54 AM »
The Wildcat was on my short list prior to buying my Z Force.  I was in the market to be ~60" wide so i wasnt looking at the exact same model you were.  But what killed the Wildcat for me was the fender (or lack of) issue.  There were a few other things as well but at the 60" market the Wildcat jumped up in price quite a bit.  Also I know its lighter but that in its self makes me cautious about it.  They took that weight out of SOMEWHERE...and usually thats metal and frame bits which strengthen it.
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline Jogon30

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2016, 09:44:59 AM »
The Wildcat was on my short list prior to buying my Z Force.  I was in the market to be ~60" wide so i wasnt looking at the exact same model you were.  But what killed the Wildcat for me was the fender (or lack of) issue.  There were a few other things as well but at the 60" market the Wildcat jumped up in price quite a bit.  Also I know its lighter but that in its self makes me cautious about it.  They took that weight out of SOMEWHERE...and usually thats metal and frame bits which strengthen it.
I think you hit the nail right on the head so far I seen 2 wildcats flip and both them roll cages were a joke!!! I don't want to post graphic pictures but Google wildcat roll cage weakness and you will see for your self. I think it was a bad design on there part and the metal has to be soft as butter idk

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Offline mtgott

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2016, 07:12:26 AM »
New guy here looking for info, I ride an ATV and an considering the 50 inch cf.  My Significant Other drives a 14 Wildcat trail, almost 3000 miles on it, only problem I've had on the trail was a radiator plugged with mud, she's a mud monster, we've never rolled it, we have had, I think, very good luck with it.  I would be quite happy if the CF, if I purchase one, does nearly as well.  Of course I have added Bandit springs to the stock Fox shocks, 28 inch Zilla tires, Speedwerx secondary spring, and a few other odds and ends.  For those of you who think it has been babied you're wrong, it has been in the rocks in the Black Hills, all over northern MN. and Wis. Most of the places we ride are slower more technical riding so high speed is not a big factor to me.  In over 20 years of riding I've come to the conclusion that most accidents? are caused by bad judgement and quite often excessive speed on the part of the driver not the shortcomings of the machine.  My biggest concern in a new machine is capability and reliability in remote areas, I will rely on my own ability and luck to keep from doing something stupid.  Understanding the limits of myself and my equipment is my job.  As mentioned before I want a capable reliable machine.  Thanks for listening.  Mark



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Offline chuddly

Re: Tipping !! Nooo, not your waiter.
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2016, 07:54:36 AM »
I think the CF Moto is a very good machine and I have had a few other SxS's (Yamaha and Kawasaki) and the reality is they all take roughly the same amount of maintenance to keep them up and running.  The CF Moto may take a little more sorting out right out of the box (maybe their quality control people are not quite as good) but most of the time its nothing major and with the number of people on here that have owned them I think we all have a solid grasp of what to keep an eye out for.  I cant see buying a Polaris just because of all the known maintenance problems they have had (suspension needs rebuilt pretty regularly).  Yamaha makes a nice product but they dont have anything that fits my needs currently.  Arctic Cat was on my short list but the price jump had to be factored in.  Can Am was also on my list but to find something in the 60" range that was used was a tough thing and i wasnt going to pay the new price they wanted.  I hope this helps you a bit?
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.