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Offline motoman

Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« on: May 10, 2017, 10:04:52 AM »
Looking for more control over my rear suspension.  Made a 2 inch lift bracket for the lower control arm.  The factory preload is at 4 inches.  I've turned it back to 2 inches. To my understanding, that would negate the lift from the bracket I've made. I should still be at the same ride height. I'm going to remove the sway bar. I'm wondering about removing the bump stops from the shocks. By removing the sway bar and the bump stops, that should give me more travel?????!!!!
NOW, to put lift into it, I'm also thinking about making a 2 inch bracket for the top mount.

Thoughts on all this????

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Offline chuddly

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 11:38:58 AM »
Nope it doesnt work out that way.  Here is why- You are roughly right on your current lift bracket/preload thoughts but that is assuming that your 2" bracket gave you an actual 2" of lift and that you adjusted the preload 2 inches down with in total lift.  Just because you back the nuts off 2" on the shock does not equal 2" of lowered height.  The spring (is more likely compressed in the shock and it takes some of the preloaded spring tension off of it.  On to the next part. The bump stop dimensions on the the shock are not the stopping point.  Taking them out is a HORRIBLE idea.  They compress to near nothing and are there to stop the sudden slam of the shock when fully compressed.  Without them expect shock damage in a very short amount of time and you will then hate the cost of rebuilding/replacing all the broken bits.  Bump stops are FULLY NEEDED they are not optional suspension equipment and or suspension tuning parts on the whole.  Removing the sway bar can accomplish something but you never stated what you are looking to accomplish???   You said more control but control is not a goal or setting.  Removing the sway bar will make the cart have MUCH more body roll and be less stable in higher speed corners.  Slow rock/root crawling it will help because it will allow the left and right sides to operate independent of each other and "walk" over things.  But that gain comes at the loss of high speed cornering stability (body roll).  On to your upper mount lift....BAD idea.  I dont like anything over a 2" lift (which you already have).  You can get away with 3" in most cases but you get into binding situations and these machines are known to have shallow CV axle cups and to much angle on them and you will break axles.  I DO NOT recommend adding more lift the way you were talking about. 

Lets start with what you are trying to achieve?  What does more control mean to you?  Is the rear end bucking over bumps? what do you not like about your suspension?  Are you wanting more ground clearance?  If so are you willing to give up handling for it (you want a higher rig you always give up handling without a MAJOR redesign).  Get me some more info and I bet I can help you get your suspension set up how you want it.
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline REDRIDER

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 12:55:14 PM »
+1 for Chuddlys comment. I put a 2 inch lift bracket on mine on the lower side of the shock, it actually netted about 3 inches of lift. I backed my preload all the way to nothing on all my shocks and it only dropped the suspension an inch. I disconnected my sway bar as well. For me I mostly slow ride and do technical stuff rock climb I want the articulation. Now I have a TON more body roll in the corners, I don't really mind it as it actually still stays pretty stable on the EX 60inch wide model, it feels scary but I can still slide the back end around on dirt and all 4 tires stay on the ground. I do like the top bracket idea and may make one myself BUT I would remove the lower bracket I would NOT double up too much lift, like chud said binding and breaking things will happen. I also put 29's on mine after I did the lift, so I may go to a 1 inch lift by drilling new holes and stiffen up my suspension a little and make a quick disconnect sway bar link so I can have a happy medium.

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Offline motoman

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 01:37:20 PM »
Basically, I'm looking for 2 inches of lift, better rock crawling ability and not lose track width. Going with wheel spacers too. I'm a crawler not a speeder.

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Offline 4getful2

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 02:28:34 PM »
You could go up a couple inches in tire height, with 28's that would net you 1" in ground clearance and a lil heavier springs will get you more lift.
You gotta watch those bracket lifts as sometimes the suspension-ball joints and/or cv joints won't let you have full suspension droop.

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Offline chuddly

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 02:33:18 PM »
If your looking for 2 inches of lift dont you already have that (if you put your shocks back to their stock preload setting)?.  I would start there then add your wheel spacers and see what you ride like.  Even disconnect the sway bars if you would like at that point (fair warning take it easy until you are used to the feel of no sway bars).  The reason I say you need to do the spacers first if you are going to do them is because when you add those you are changing your leverage point and moving it further out.  So it makes the compression of the shock/springs at a different rate than it was previously.  It also changes the amount of lift that you actually get because it puts the contact point with the ground further out and exaggerates the suspension movement. 

My suggestion is put the spacers on and pop the sway bar end links off and ride it around.  See how it feels.  If you dont like the feel of it let me know what you dont like about it and we can talk about adjusting the shocks settings and spring preload at that point to dial it in.  Any adjustments done to the shocks prior to the spacers is all to be thrown away and started again if you add spacers after the fact.
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline chuddly

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 02:34:16 PM »
You could go up a couple inches in tire height, with 28's that would net you 1" in ground clearance and a lil heavier springs will get you more lift.
You gotta watch those bracket lifts as sometimes the suspension-ball joints and/or cv joints won't let you have full suspension droop.

Heavier springs is not a good way to go.  Same results as more bracket lifts and will result in binding and broken parts.
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline Jaxxus87

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 02:46:33 PM »
found these awhile back when looking into lifts. Someone correct me if i am wrong but, wouldn't they just make for a shit ride?

http://www.sidebysidestuff.com/super-atv-2-inch-lift-kit---cf-moto-zforce-800-ex.html

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Offline REDRIDER

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 03:02:54 PM »
I can't see the picture but if those are the coil spring spacers, I would never run those.

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Offline chuddly

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 03:06:03 PM »
All those will do is be like cranking up the preload pretty much.  It WILL lift it if you dont change your preload adjustment.  But yes you are correct that will make it ride worse.  I saw a guy who put those on then backed his preload off the exact amount that the spacers put in it LOL.  So all he did was waste the time of putting them on to have no lift.
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline motoman

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2017, 03:36:14 PM »
Well, there's some good info here. Not trying to turn my 50" into a 60", but trying to get the most lift and stability while keeping the 50" width.  I'd say the fastest I'd be going into a turn would be around 20 kms/hr. A couple of years ago I put my wildcat trail on its' side pushing it too far. Don't want to do that again.

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Offline motoman

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 05:47:11 PM »
Installed everything. Not sure if it's going to work. With the car on the jack, I put the wheels back on and noticed the link kits pushing into the sidewall. When I let it down and settled it, everything looked ok. Unhooked the sway bar and jacked up the right side 5 inches. Noticed the left spring touching the sidewall on the left tire. Perhaps this is not a good idea.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2017, 07:23:22 PM »
Just not convinced that the short a-arms and axles of the trail lends itself to be lifted like the EX. However, because I don't think anyone had done a bracket lift on a Trail, I'm sure we would be interested in the results if you can get everything not to rub in any position. I also wonder why no one had yet to come up with an airbag system that would work on these things. Seems like the ability to tough a button and change things quickly as needed would be the cat's a$$.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
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Offline REDRIDER

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2017, 06:53:35 AM »
Oh man, yea I don't know if I would lift a 50inch, I have an EX. Put spacers on the wheels and you can eliminate that but you won't be 50 inch anymore. You are pretty limited on lifting a 50 inch up without severely compromising stability.

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Offline chuddly

Re: Looking for suspension info 2017 Z8
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2017, 07:07:43 AM »
Just not convinced that the short a-arms and axles of the trail lends itself to be lifted like the EX. However, because I don't think anyone had done a bracket lift on a Trail, I'm sure we would be interested in the results if you can get everything not to rub in any position. I also wonder why no one had yet to come up with an airbag system that would work on these things. Seems like the ability to tough a button and change things quickly as needed would be the cat's a$$.

Air bags are not really a great idea off road.  Air cylinders are a much better idea.  I have done them on motorcycles.  The problem with adjusting on the fly is that you change your alignment unless all arms are the EXACT same length, and I dont believe they are on the zforce.  So now while riding you change how the buggy handles also.  While I see why you would want to raise and lower the cart its just NOT a good idea for the majority of people to change the handling characteristics of a machine.  People have a hard enough time keeping all 4 on the ground with no changes LOL.

On to the lift...If you put the spacers on you can probably do the lift you have because it will push the wheels out enough to clear.  I agree lifting a 50" is walking a thin rope.  But its not impossible and as long as you mind the limits of the buggy you wont have a problem
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.