CFMoto-Forum
ZForce => ZForce 800 EX, 53 & Trail => Topic started by: Hrc630 on October 01, 2015, 10:19:44 AM
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How many miles do you have on your 800 ???
What problem do you have had ?
What is your top speed ?
Mine is s 2015 53"
1550 miles (2500km)
Top speed 75 mph (new belt)
65 mph (now)
No problem, just fun.
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Miles 697
Top Speed 69
Problems: Loose A arm bolts, Shock adjuster was stuck, my dealer replaced it on the trailer and gave me the old shock as a spare no questions asked. My water pump did weep for a few weeks, hasn't done it in months. My front shock reservoirs rub on the springs. For the life of me I can't figure out how to fix it. Other than those minor issues I am extremely pleased.
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Oh in about 500 miles expect a spun rod bearing on rear cylinder. Should be about it!!!!!
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Is a spun bearing a common problem on these machines?
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Is a spun bearing a common problem on these machines?
Man I hope not...lol Only about 300 miles on mine, with the new clutching she tops out about 64. The only real problems I have has were the rear a-arm bushing seizing and turning in the tubes, coolant leak at weep but quit on it's own..and exhaust flanges becoming unset because of weak springs.
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I have 2600kms on mine,
Engine came out at 100kms to have new plain bearing and oil pressure valve.
Other than that its running good, though heavy mods.
I have a few customers in the 3000km range on Z8 and 7000km range on x8
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I had two units, including my own, go down at 620 miles. Both due to airbox failures which caused the air filters to get overcome by sand quickly. On both motors the rear cylinders went down harder than the front. In mine, I also found that the case has a few breaks and cracks. Got two motors in for replacement, and one came in bad right off the bat with no oil pressure, reason was never found. It was also full of green gel in the coolant ports.
Customers machine that went down now has a X8 motor in it and has been running strong so far. For some reason those X8 motors have more low end to them. Because I had to rebuild one of the bad motors, I took the wet clutch, bell housing, and clutches from the 2nd X8 motor they sent us to see if its in the clutching.
The one thing that will make or break these is quality oil and oil change frequencies. These arent cars. These are small engines that work harder, rev higher, and get hotter. I dont care what the manual says, 500, no more than 1000 and then get fresh oil in there.
Dont go cheap on the oil. With that said, DONT GO FULL SYNTHETIC. Its a waste of money, and will actually cause your wet clutch to slip more. Stick to a high quality semi blend or full conventional.
The absolute best oil, IMHO, is a diesel grade oil, 14w40. Why? Think of how massive those engines are and how hard they work. That oil as LOADS of anti-wear additives. This is KEY with these engines because of the type of bearings they use, as well as the cams which arent high quality and have no bearings at all.
As someone who has torn down these engines right down to the last bolt, I can tell you they have some weaknesses that can be overcome with simple PM. You saved a LOT of money by buying one of these. Use those savings to maintain your machine. If you cant afford regular oil changes, you shouldn't have gotten one in the first place.
CHECK YOUR AIR BOX FREQUENTLY!!!
Especially in dusty conditions. I ALWAYS tell my customers to check them after every ride. Ditch the junk stock air filter and go with a Uni or TwinAir. A good quality dual stage foam filter. This way you can wash them and re-oil them frequently. Again, there is not a single roller or needle bearing on the crank or cams, so sand/dirt with destroy everything REAL quick.
These are fun machines and have the potential to last a LONG time as long as to take care of them. Just because its chinese doesnt mean its junk.
I have a Chinese 50cc moped here for service that has 5600 miles on it and still runs strong. The guy made sure to always keep good quality fresh oil in it. PM will make or break you.
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Great Info..and insite emersonsc . Thanks for the post. Makes me feel better as I am strong on PM myself,
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Well, here's a little horror story about CFMoto, that actually has a happy ending.
In Sept of 2014, I purchased a brand new CFMoto 800 EX. For the price, I didn't think it was a bad deal at all, considering a comparably equipped RZR was $5000 more. Problems quickly started to arise however. On the second day with about 22 miles on the machine, the front differential prop shaft seal started leaking. On the 4th day, the lever for the tilt steering broke off. Not a big deal since I don't change the steering wheel position anyway. I kept a close watch on the front differential level until I had a chance to get it to the dealer, but the leak wasn't that bad.
At the first service with 522 miles, I found that the machine is a service nightmare. Nothing is easy to say the least on that machine. But, my main concern was that the Air Filter had come apart. The top of the filter cartridge itself had separated from the filter body, allowing unfiltered air into the engine for God only knows how long. I replaced the filter with a new one, but was not happy about what I had found and voiced my concern to the dealer. I guess they had several Air Filters that had suffered the same failure after some research on my part.
Spring riding season rolls around in May, and on the first ride of the year, the Temp Sensor on the Radiator failed. This was preventing the cooling fan from starting and causing the temp to increase. I never let it get to the point of boiling over and never let it even get to the top of the temp range on the gauge. We made it back home, and I scheduled an appointment with the dealer for service.
The dealer did an excellent job at repairing all the issues I had thus far encountered. We were still very happy with our CFMoto, and loved our machine. We rode until the end of July with no issues until I started to notice a ticking sound in the motor that just kept getting worse. Just as a side not, I tend to over maintain my machines. They get oil and filter changes every 800 miles, with a new air filters every other oil change, grease jobs after every wash.....I just take pride in my equipment.
With 2400 miles on the machine, I returned it to the dealer for service on July 30th, where the engine blew on start-up, on the trailer, in front of the dealership. After a month and a half of not hearing anything about my machine, I got really pissed and bought a 2016 RZR 900S. The delay, I was told, was unavailability of parts. The thing needed a complete new engine, and none were forthcoming.
I contacted CFMoto directly, and stirred the pot so to speak. To make an already long story shorter, I got a call yesterday Oct 1 from the dealer, telling me that CFMoto was refunding me all of my money for the purchase price, including Taxes!! Thats unheard of. Period.
The dealer really went to the plate for me on this issue, and to thank him, I told him I was going to purchase a new 2015 Zforce 800 53" model he has on the lot. We really loved our CFmoto, and want another even though we had problems with the first. These things happen with anything you buy, but the level of customer service from CFmoto and their willingness to satisfy customers is phenomenal. I've never seen this. Thank you to CFmoto and Bob at Plourde and Plourde in Caribou Maine for the best customer service I have ever encountered in my life.
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What mods do you have ???
Here in Canada i have seen one Snyper 800 with 8500km and no problem and another ZForce with 6500km and no problem.
I think all the trouble is in the very first miles due to quality control and Aldo from dust in air filter. I push mine REALLY hard all the Time and the engine seem to be like new.
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Thank you very much emersonrc!
I am very desapointed to know that this 800 engine is not strong.
I really think its a copy of the Rotax found in the Can am ...
Does the Rotax have better bearing design or its the same shit ? My freind have a BRP 800 with 27,000km and NO trouble .
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I really think its a copy of the Rotax found in the Can am ...
Does the Rotax have better bearing design or its the same shit ? My freind have a BRP 800 with 27,000km and NO trouble .
Although it did start as a copy of the Rotax 800 engine, it did go through some design changes.. changes that helped in production time and cost not in engine life.. IMO. The addition of a wet clutch system was a plus though..as long as it hangs in there.
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My dad has a 2007 Can Am Outlander 800. That thing has been an absolute trooper since day one. Only problem he's had with it was overheating issues. A lot of mud was clogging up the radiator and it was hard to keep clean. Couple of years ago he slapped on a radiator relocation kit and the thing has worked flawlessly since. Has only had to change the belt once.
However a couple friends of mine ride Mavericks, and while at first I was impressed by those machines, it seems like every time we got riding something is going wrong with them.
Don't know which engine CFMoto has more of a similarity too (or what the differences are between them) but I hope they don't turn out to be like the Maverick.
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Well, here's a little horror story about CFMoto, that actually has a happy ending.
In Sept of 2014, I purchased a brand new CFMoto 800 EX. For the price, I didn't think it was a bad deal at all, considering a comparably equipped RZR was $5000 more. Problems quickly started to arise however. On the second day with about 22 miles on the machine, the front differential prop shaft seal started leaking. On the 4th day, the lever for the tilt steering broke off. Not a big deal since I don't change the steering wheel position anyway. I kept a close watch on the front differential level until I had a chance to get it to the dealer, but the leak wasn't that bad.
At the first service with 522 miles, I found that the machine is a service nightmare. Nothing is easy to say the least on that machine. But, my main concern was that the Air Filter had come apart. The top of the filter cartridge itself had separated from the filter body, allowing unfiltered air into the engine for God only knows how long. I replaced the filter with a new one, but was not happy about what I had found and voiced my concern to the dealer. I guess they had several Air Filters that had suffered the same failure after some research on my part.
Spring riding season rolls around in May, and on the first ride of the year, the Temp Sensor on the Radiator failed. This was preventing the cooling fan from starting and causing the temp to increase. I never let it get to the point of boiling over and never let it even get to the top of the temp range on the gauge. We made it back home, and I scheduled an appointment with the dealer for service.
The dealer did an excellent job at repairing all the issues I had thus far encountered. We were still very happy with our CFMoto, and loved our machine. We rode until the end of July with no issues until I started to notice a ticking sound in the motor that just kept getting worse. Just as a side not, I tend to over maintain my machines. They get oil and filter changes every 800 miles, with a new air filters every other oil change, grease jobs after every wash.....I just take pride in my equipment.
With 2400 miles on the machine, I returned it to the dealer for service on July 30th, where the engine blew on start-up, on the trailer, in front of the dealership. After a month and a half of not hearing anything about my machine, I got really pissed and bought a 2016 RZR 900S. The delay, I was told, was unavailability of parts. The thing needed a complete new engine, and none were forthcoming.
I contacted CFMoto directly, and stirred the pot so to speak. To make an already long story shorter, I got a call yesterday Oct 1 from the dealer, telling me that CFMoto was refunding me all of my money for the purchase price, including Taxes!! Thats unheard of. Period.
The dealer really went to the plate for me on this issue, and to thank him, I told him I was going to purchase a new 2015 Zforce 800 53" model he has on the lot. We really loved our CFmoto, and want another even though we had problems with the first. These things happen with anything you buy, but the level of customer service from CFmoto and their willingness to satisfy customers is phenomenal. I've never seen this. Thank you to CFmoto and Bob at Plourde and Plourde in Caribou Maine for the best customer service I have ever encountered in my life.
I can guarantee you the failure was due to the sand intake. I have had two machines suffer the same fate.
I can tell you the parts availability issue your dealer told you is hogwash. I was able to rebuild one of my units from the ground up, and never waited for parts. This included gasket and seal sets, crank and rod bearings, rod bolts, cam shafts, cam chains, injectors, intake manifold assemblies, throttle body, air temp sensor, intake & exhaust valves, valve seals, pistons, rings, c-clips, wrist pins, cylinders... i ordered my stuff on a monday and it was all here on a wednesday. It sounds like your dealer didnt want to, or didnt know how, to rebuild that engine.
CFMoto DOES NOT how ever, stock engines. I was told its because they have such a low failure rate. To me, thats a horrible idea, but I'm just a dealer, what do i know ;)
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Today i have remove my air filter to see if all is ok after my 500 km ride...
Very frustrating to see all that sand in my trottle body...
Do you think my engine is ruinned 😤
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Though I didn't see any evidence of dirt getting into my intake when I recently changed my filter with a new stock one, I did notice how easy it was to blow dirt through the filter element with compressed air.
I have a 2 1/4"x6" replacement uni filter on the way
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If not ruined, its certainly very near. So sorry to see that...OK I have a Uni on the way now too. Mine will have two foam filters.
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Today i have remove my air filter to see if all is ok after my 500 km ride...
Very frustrating to see all that sand in my trottle body...
Do you think my engine is ruinned 😤
I highly HIGHLY recommend you change your oil ASAP, and flush out the oil cooling system as well. Put a good high quality 15w40 diesel oil like Shell Rotella.
To flush out your oil cooling sustem, you'll need to disconnect both oil cooler lines from the engine. Take the longer of the two lines (the one the connects to the rear of the unit) and have it point down into a 2 liter bottle. With the shorter end, get a air nozzle and a air compressor. Blow out the oil until nothing comes out. It may take a few.
After you fill the engine with oil and start it, it'll take a little longer for your oil pressure to build up. Once it has, shut the unit off and check your oil. You'll have to add about .5 to a full quart.
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If not ruined, its certainly very near. So sorry to see that...OK I have a Uni on the way now too. Mine will have two foam filters.
Though I didn't see any evidence of dirt getting into my intake when I recently changed my filter with a new stock one, I did notice how easy it was to blow dirt through the filter element with compressed air.
I have a 2 1/4"x6" replacement uni filter on the way
As I had stated in another thread:
CFMoto US is going to start recommending the following as a suitable aftermarket replacement for the stock air filter:
Twin Air filter is p/n 156052FR, the dust cover is p/n 156052DC.
The filter is larger, and a stiffer spring, and with the dust cover (which is foam) you have 3 layers of protection. The filter has been much better than the uni I got off an earlier suggestion.
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Thank you.
I Will flush it 2 Time tonight.
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Just rolled up to 640 km's today which works out to 398 (s)miles! ;D
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I have about 370 miles. Nothing major yet, hopefully never. I did have coolant leak at weep hole, but it seems to have stopped. Throttle sticks a little just above idle but not bad. Bolts came loose on power steering bracket. I tightened them up and no more problem. Park brake doesn't work. probably needs adjustment. I haven't looked yet. Shift linkage needs adjustment. I need to tighten the bolt on the splines of one of the steering shaft joints. It could be better for sure, but overall, I'm happy with it so far.
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7.9 km, and One way bearing failed, think it was backwards, but cant be sure. Besides that, never leave the garage LOL, next week i hope to test it a hundred of km when i get a trailer.
I changed my self the bearing, but, one thing keeps me inconfortable, i dindt torque to specific values, the clutch nut, and the two nuts of the primary and secondary, i did it with an impact wrench that has 312 NM, just triple manual says, and put loctite 243 on them. So i dont think thay are going to came loose. And dealer didnt have the front gasket, so i made one with silicone paste, but that part of the engine, has no contact with cooling or oil.
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7.9 km, and One way bearing failed, think it was backwards, but cant be sure. Besides that, never leave the garage LOL, next week i hope to test it a hundred of km when i get a trailer.
I changed my self the bearing, but, one thing keeps me inconfortable, i dindt torque to specific values, the clutch nut, and the two nuts of the primary and secondary, i did it with an impact wrench that has 312 NM, just triple manual says, and put loctite 243 on them. So i dont think thay are going to came loose. And dealer didnt have the front gasket, so i made one with silicone paste, but that part of the engine, has no contact with cooling or oil.
If there was a gasket, it comes in contact with oil, especially if you are talking about the wet-clutch cover where the one way bearing is located.
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I mean the gasket of the tranny shaft. When you take apart the cover, one its in contact with oil and cooling (the bigger one), and the other, at the front of the UTV, its a dry place. The big was changed, the dealer has it in stock, the front one no, so, two options, make a new one, with gasket paper or silicone, or... wait 2 month a new shipping with new parts from China.
(http://s3.postimg.org/tymzm2osj/gasket_front.jpg) (http://postimage.org/)
subirimagenes (http://postimage.org/index.php?lang=spanish)
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It looks like you're referring to the gasket between the tranny and CVT housing. If so, it should be fine with silicone. It just keeps mud and water out of the CVT.
Also, your nuts should be fine with an impact, as long as they're tight enough to stay on, but you do not damage the threads.
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I just turned 1200 miles after putting on nearly 900 in a week on my recent vacation. (See my post in what did you do this weekend thread). Anyway, here are my issues at this point.
1. There has to be a way to keep the hot engine air from coming up from the engine through the snorkel area. It was extremely unpleasant, to the point that I have returned the Z8 to stock upon returning. (See my snorkel picks in the snorkel post, if you're not sure what I'm talking about)
2. The Super ATV half windshield does a great job of keeping wind off you. Might be nice in the winter, but not so nice on a warm day.
3. Service upon return: 1. Front and rear A arms were loose and needed tightening. Some more than others. 2. Front and rear differential were nasty when I changed the fluid. Lots of metal shavings, but when I texted the dealer a picture, he said it was ok... 3. Serious play in one of the rear wheels. Might be a bearing. 4. Driver's seat belt doesn't work. 4. SCAP doors literally came apart and had to be fixed on the road. 5. Air filter was toast. There was significant dust on the trip, but even with the snorkel having a pre-filter on it, the air box was coated in dust and the filter was full. No dust seems to have gotten past the filter, so it did its job. Time to invest in a washable filter. 6. Front driveshaft boots are leaking. 7. The suspension does a good job, but I think the stone hard tire pressure the CFMoto calls for don't do the ride justice. I took the pressure down to 9psi. Way more comfortable. Feels a little mushy on pavement and I keep expecting the tire to come off the rim, but its been all good. I think the next set of tires will be some Big Horns. Heard a lot of good things. One of the ATV guys had them and they were great.
Overall, it was a great trip and the Z8 is a little tired after the trip, but I think a trip to the dealer to see if they will address a few of those things under warranty, all will be fine again. Definitely want to find a new snorkel idea.
Well, thanks for reading.
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Play in the rear wheels might be the a arm bushings, they are not very good to start with. The leaking boots you are talking about the front prop shaft going from the engine to the front diff? Leaking oil seal at the output shaft?