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Offline mike17901

Clutch Question!!!
« on: August 12, 2016, 08:04:01 AM »
hi i have a couple questions about clocking clutch to the b2 setting. i did watch the videos in the how to section on here but that still didn't answer all my questions. When i take my secondary clutch apart and change spring pins to B2 and start putting back together is where i get confused a bit. So the spring and the helix are compressed and i have the key way installed and then i spin the sheave to get the slider on the right side of the helix post, this is where i am confused. If i spin it to the closest slider (attached picture) and reinstall the retaining clip and release pressure on the spring there is still a gap between the slider and the helix post. What i ended up doing was taking the retaining clip back off and spinning it to the next slider back (attached picture). Is there suppose to be a gap or am i doing it right or and i suppose to spin it farther? the videos were great and a big help just left some question unanswered. Also in the service manual it talks about putting thread lock on the nuts when reinstalling the primary and secondary clutches but after watching the videos and reading the forums no one really talks about putting it on during installation.   

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2016, 09:19:15 AM »
Ok, first there never should be a gap between the helix and the pad as you are preloading the spring so..with that thought in mind think of the chart:



As you see, the settings equal degrees of preload so if you look down on the cap and think of a degree wheel where one point is zero and the other is the degree of preload, you can see how much you will have to twist the helix to set those two points to zero. B2 offers 38 degrees of spring preload. So when you start, the tip of the helix (or the spot on the side where it sets assembled) and the shoe or pad will be 38 degrees apart.  Here's a degree wheel you can print out:



Now the direction to twist to get that preload will be the direction it takes to set the slide on the side of the helex that shows the wear..that's how I  do it. Also, rule of thumb, spring torsional preloading is always done in the direction it takes to compress the spring or twist it smaller, not larger. So that helps in direction too.

As for the thread locker. If the torque is correct you shouldn't need it. The torque value on both is 80ftlbs. I go 85 just to be safe and have no issues. Do at least 80 and it's best to use a torque wrench...otherwise you may not have it right as torqueing is the precise stretching of a material and you must have something that measures that. An impact just doesn't and can effect the material by over stretching it or under torqueing which may cause it to come loose.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 01:40:14 PM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline chuddly

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2016, 09:37:54 AM »
I know EXACTLY what mike it saying because i also have the same gap he is talking about.  I did spin mine so the helix would ride on the pad but it sits off the pad by ~1/8" or so.  I have the feeling this is where i have lost some top end because when I first rode the machine i was able to hit 71-72 mph.  Now even with taking it apart and looking at it twice 64-65 is topped out.  Some help would be GREATLY appreciated.
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline mike17901

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2016, 09:50:29 AM »
thank you for the input ill try it again when i get home but i feel like when i turn it to about 38 degrees to get the slider and the side of the helix to line up that is where i get my gap so i turned it farther to the nest slider to get rid of the gap but this is my first time doing it so ill take all the help i can get. so you are also saying i can turn it to far and put to much preload on it?

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2016, 09:56:48 AM »
thank you for the input ill try it again when i get home but i feel like when i turn it to about 38 degrees to get the slider and the side of the helix to line up that is where i get my gap so i turned it farther to the nest slider to get rid of the gap but this is my first time doing it so ill take all the help i can get. so you are also saying i can turn it to far and put to much preload on it?
I am saying you can over-torque the retainer nut.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline mike17901

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2016, 10:02:35 AM »
oh ok i torqued them down to 85ftlbs with a torque wrench, well and the two spanner wrenches that i had welded up. lol

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2016, 10:03:18 AM »
You guys make double sure your spring posts are well seated in the correct holes..top and bottom. I do know on mine I can get some initial binding with the compressor that can leave a gap sometimes but as soon as I take the compressor off it slams against the helix.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline mike17901

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2016, 10:12:54 AM »
You guys make double sure your spring posts are well seated in the correct holes..top and bottom. I do know on mine I can get some initial binding with the compressor that can leave a gap sometimes but as soon as I take the compressor off it slams against the helix.

ok thank you, ill pull it apart today to try again and if theres a gap again ill take a picture and post it. thank you for your help.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2016, 10:25:24 AM »
Yeah the posts have to be all the way in so the ends of the spring are laying flat on the base and helix. Otherwise the spring warps are rubs inside the helix and won't work right. Might not be the issue but once I had that happen.

One other thing to keep in mine- turning it to the closest helix post may not be it. Remember the degrees needed for the preload. On B2 you will turn it at least 38 degrees no matter what. If you have to, mark the base and the helix then bring the two together.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 11:38:55 AM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline chuddly

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2016, 01:54:26 PM »
Just as an FYI...my spring pins were fully seated and I tried both B1 and B2.  Same results.
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2016, 02:35:53 PM »
Just as an FYI...my spring pins were fully seated and I tried both B1 and B2.  Same results.
I'm almost wondering if something didn't happen to it from that impact it took. I might be tempted to buy just a spring to see.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline chuddly

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2016, 03:10:37 PM »
Nope...sounds like Mike and I are doing the same thing and getting the same results so its something with how we are putting it together.  Also I was able to hit 72 prior to messing with it so it wasn't damaged before that and there never was any damage in that area at all.  Im not doubting its some way that I am doing it...Im just looking for HOW im doing it wrong LOL.

Chad
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2016, 03:41:05 PM »
Ok..Here's some food for thought. When everyone was going to these UniFilters and TwinAir filters I had a concern about the total surface area and how small it was compared to others brands using foam filters. I don't have my data handy but I took the stock filter, took into account the pleats and came up with a total surface area in square inches. Did the same with a Unifilter and found it was significantly less. This bothered me. Especially when I found that even the paper OE filter was much less then other manufacturers put on their 800cc engines..ie Polaris for one. And as for foam filters, these UniFilters have over a third less surface area then any other manufacturer that uses foam filters on a 800cc engine. I worry that at maximum...or near maximum draw they are becoming restrictive enough to have an effect on power and top end. I lost top end after installing mine but I also did other things that may have caused it. I have looked for an 8" long foam filter with the same 2.25" base but have not had any luck. I tried Uni, TwinAir, NoToli and Maxima. I think an8" long filter would fit and would much improve the surface area filtering...but I just can't find one...yet.   
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 04:22:11 PM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline chuddly

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2016, 04:45:03 AM »
Sorry but I can shoot that one down to.  I lost top end speed while still on the stock filter. . And to put your mind at ease my top speed did not change after I put the uni filter on so I don't think it's restricting it any/enough to make a difference.
I can imagine a world completely at peace.  A world where there are no weapons, no war, and no violence at all.  And I can imagine us taking over that world because they would never expect it.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: Clutch Question!!!
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2016, 08:27:29 AM »
Sorry but I can shoot that one down to.  I lost top end speed while still on the stock filter. . And to put your mind at ease my top speed did not change after I put the uni filter on so I don't think it's restricting it any/enough to make a difference.
Good. Then I can quit thinking about it...lol

My latest thoughts were towards all the extra weight I have added over time with mods, accessories and equipment. When I add it all up I come up with a ball park number of 197 lbs that it didn't have when I brought it home. That's like having an extra person on board all the time.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 08:49:34 AM by NMKawierider »
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | 9.7" GPS | Bandit Springs Rear & Gen-3 Shocks Front

My Videos On YouTube