Author Topic: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate  (Read 1929 times)

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Offline bezerk1

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2018, 05:50:55 PM »
Is it me or is the drive side shaft shorter than the passenger side?  Something I never noticed.  I would assume that the 800EX is the same way.

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2018, 06:36:32 PM »
Looks like it doesn't it. I'll slip out after dinner and take a quick measurement.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 06:57:08 PM by NMKawierider »
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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2018, 06:59:44 PM »
Well, it is...about a 1/2 inch. Measuring from inside to inside on the boot clamps, the driver's side is about 6"s and the passenger side is a bit over 6 1/2"s . Interesting that is so noticeable. 
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Offline Hrc630

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2018, 03:57:57 PM »
On my ZForce I run without the sway bar. A lot more comfortable.
I have ajusted the front a little stiffer and put 1,5 inch wheels spacer each side.
My ride are principally high speed trail and the handling is incredible for a 56 inch machine. The ZForce have a very low gravity center and always stay flat on the 4 wheels even at very high speed.
No need for the sway bar for me. The wheels travel are to short to be dangerous.

NMKawierider, do you have wheels spacer ?
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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2018, 04:05:43 PM »
On my ZForce I run without the sway bar. A lot more comfortable.
I have ajusted the front a little stiffer and put 1,5 inch wheels spacer each side.
My ride are principally high speed trail and the handling is incredible for a 56 inch machine. The ZForce have a very low gravity center and always stay flat on the 4 wheels even at very high speed.
No need for the sway bar for me. The wheels travel are to short to be dangerous.

NMKawierider, do you have wheels spacer ?
Yeah..1.5". Without the sway bar my trail (53) is up on two wheels just too much for me even with the spacers but I did like the ride much better. This was a good compromise for me and my riding.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 04:07:37 PM by NMKawierider »
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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2018, 02:24:35 PM »
Well, this was a great modification except...I should have done two things different. I say this because after a few hundred miles one side appears to have lost it's bolt then broke so..one- they need to be made with material larger then 1/8" steel on the 2.5" "U" section and two- the bolts need to have at least a nyloc nut.
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Online NMKawierider

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2018, 03:29:09 PM »
Well, lets try this again. I was going to just forget it but there was enough gain on ride quality to build better brackets....and as I found the missing piece to the broken one, it looks like it just lost its bolt and pulled itself apart. So...

All new using 3/16 on the "U" section instead of 1/16 and 1/4" on the eyelet instead of 1/8" and this time I use 3/8" grade 8 bolts with Nyloc nuts and I torqued them to 40ftlbs. Now lets see it fail...lol













That last photo also shoes how little stroke the rear shock has..damn..gota do something about that :)



 
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Offline Jimbo

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2018, 06:50:26 PM »
For springs, people have been using Shock Therapy spring kits, Eibach, or the like, which are heavier springs, which hold the general load with no 2/3's coil binding top or bottom, and the heavier springs actually end up riding softer as they are using their ability to progressively get stiffer as compressed, without being in the last, heaviest, non progressive 1/3rd of the spring which always just rides rough. And they have less sag over time. Seems most of the factory springs are just not up to their job, though the shocks may be good. Sometimes this may be much cheaper than replacing entire shock packages.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 06:54:02 PM by Jimbo »
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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2018, 07:36:04 PM »
For springs, people have been using Shock Therapy spring kits, Eibach, or the like, which are heavier springs, which hold the general load with no 2/3's coil binding top or bottom, and the heavier springs actually end up riding softer as they are using their ability to progressively get stiffer as compressed, without being in the last, heaviest, non progressive 1/3rd of the spring which always just rides rough. And they have less sag over time. Seems most of the factory springs are just not up to their job, though the shocks may be good. Sometimes this may be much cheaper than replacing entire shock packages.
Think I'll look into that. Before the last ride I could see between those lower coils but now it looks like that's gone. And it's taking less and less to hit the bumper so I know they are going. I just am unsure about spending the coin for Elkas on this thing...springs may be what what the Dr. ordered :)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 08:18:33 PM by NMKawierider »
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Online NMKawierider

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2018, 02:11:47 PM »
Well, spent last week in the mountains..fast, slow, rock crowling,rocky trails and off-camber situations. The new brackets did well. Glad I rebuilt them. It made the trail so much nicer. Next- shocks and seats :)
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
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Offline ctdls

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2018, 08:31:37 PM »
This is a very good thread.

I struggle with suspension setup/calibration & is it a miss calibration or we just cannot get there from here. Reducing the sway bar influence suggests to me the spring rate maybe wrong as Jimbo is suggesting with very good justification.

Increasing preload on a spring is wrong vs higher spring rate & reducing preload.  Learned that many years ago, let the spring travel & work.

In my Auto X days I found higher spring rates let me control things like squat & dive easier than soft springs & fat sway bars. Better bump quality & ride as well.

That cheater glenlivet should have some Elka's late this week, his priority should be to have them installed 1 hour & 15 minutes after delivery & report within 1 hour & 15 minutes how they work  :)

Checked out the website Jimbo was talking about .....some very good stuff  ;D no CFMOTO wtf  ;)
ZF 800 LX Trail, stock for now.......not for long.

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2018, 10:02:03 PM »
Something I haven't looked completely into but have noticed is - take a look at the parts diagram of the rear suspensions on the EX and the Trail. Although the sway bar numbers are different, take a look at the distance between the two sway bar mount points and the knuckles. It looks like the sway bars are the same width and the distance between mount and the knuckle increases the extra width of the EX. Well..that changes the ratios on the sway bar..a lot...so it makes sense to me that the Trail's mounting points need to be moved in some to get some of that leverage back. Again the two sway bar PNs are different and maybe their flexibility is different..but as rock-hard as the trail is...or mine was...can't say it was much different.
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Offline ctdls

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2018, 07:51:22 AM »
Here is a very good read:

http://shocktherapyst.com/the-truth-about-dual-rate-springs/

If you drive the new Z1000 & a ZF800 Trail you are nodding not shaking your head after a couple of bumps  :) I don't remember noticing ride quality difference between the ZF 800 EX & the Trail. In fact I recall last season spending some time in the EX becoming very annoyed with the ride quality & the lack of response from the clickers. Then I drove a brand new 17 ZF 800 Trail in the same mountain area as the EX. The Trail ZF impressed me as I was expecting a major difference in ride quality & stability......it was not, either just as bad or just as good  ;D
ZF 800 LX Trail, stock for now.......not for long.

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2018, 09:11:08 AM »
Wow..that's different. Must be the settings. I rode with a guy with an EX and could never keep up with him and once on a desert ride we switched for a bit. To me there was night and day difference between the ride and stability.. and when it was time to switch back..he couldn't wait to get his back...and I..even though his didn't have PS, wanted to trade...lol
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 09:25:55 AM by NMKawierider »
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Offline ctdls

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Re: Z800 Trail/53 Stay Bar Mount Relocate
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2018, 09:22:35 AM »
You are probably right & my memory is fogged. At that time I was struggling with the suspension set up, even had the F & S backwards for a time  ::)

I also wanted to mention that I believe the shock angle is a factor in the equation.
ZF 800 LX Trail, stock for now.......not for long.