Author Topic: Zforce 800 Cranks but no start  (Read 834 times)

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Offline NMKawierider

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Re: Zforce 800 Crack but no start
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2018, 11:19:48 AM »
you aren't supposed to oil the foam cover on a paper filter. See above post, very likely.
No..never..absolutely not. But he says he had the Uni so....
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Offline REDRIDER

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Re: Zforce 800 Crack but no start
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2018, 01:02:28 PM »
you aren't supposed to oil the foam cover on a paper filter. See above post, very likely.
No..never..absolutely not. But he says he had the Uni so....
oops I read "sock" filter as "stock" filter. Still if it started right after spraying oil onto the filter too much may have been sprayed. isn't there a sensor in the intake tube? I'd pull it and clean it first.

Offline CCALF

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Re: Zforce 800 Crack but no start
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2018, 01:33:59 PM »
Symptom: Oiled filter, engine ran for a bit and then stalled and won't start.

My first guess would be that oil got on the T-Map sensor and the sensor is now sending wrong data to the ECM.

First step is to inspect and clean the T-Map sensor. Use a cleaner specifically made for the purpose.


I have previously cleaned the tmap sensor with carb cleaner. My machanic said carb clearner works fine. He also said it could need a value adjustment but they are backed up two weeks.....

Filter is NOT paper, its a foam uni filter. As i stated before I have oiled several times before with no issue.

I just checked the oil and it smells like gas. I spoke to a machanic friend who suggested I change the oil and filter before trying to start again.


Offline REDRIDER

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Re: Zforce 800 Crack but no start
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2018, 01:57:05 PM »
The compression really needs to be checked. You can usually borrow a tester from an auto part store but if it is under warranty I wouldn't even touch it, I would send it to the dealer at this point before you get too deep into it and they start pointing fingers at you for touching it.  Not sure if it's under warranty you said you bought it 3 months ago but was it bought new?

Offline CCALF

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Re: Zforce 800 Crack but no start
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2018, 05:29:58 PM »
The compression really needs to be checked. You can usually borrow a tester from an auto part store but if it is under warranty I wouldn't even touch it, I would send it to the dealer at this point before you get too deep into it and they start pointing fingers at you for touching it.  Not sure if it's under warranty you said you bought it 3 months ago but was it bought new?

UPDATE:

Unfortunately its not under warranty.

I have narrowed the the issue down to a stuck injector. Injector is stuck open which is dumping fuel into the engine causing it to flood and to foul the spark plug.

I havnt gotten it started (waiting for a second hand) but ive gotten my best results with starter fluid and both injectors unplugged.

Please let me know if you have any suggestions on starting with a stuck injector.


Offline ctdls

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Re: Zforce 800 Crack but no start
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2018, 07:27:16 PM »
How have you determined the injector is stuck?

ZF 800 LX Trail, stock for now.......not for long.

Offline Ukhozi

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Re: Zforce 800 Cranks but no start
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2018, 07:06:15 AM »
Foam covered paper filters must remain dry, only Omniflow or TwinAir all-foam filters are oiled.

Have you checked the valve clearances?  Sounds like classic tight valves.  you have ignition, fuel and timing, so whats left? Compression.

No feelers? No problem, unlock nuts, turn screw all way down to lightly touch the take 1/4 turn out on inlet and 1/3 turn on exhaust, that is 0.10 and 0.15. Also known as , "a Little bit and a little bit more". :)

Offline glenlivet

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Re: Zforce 800 Cranks but no start
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2018, 11:39:30 AM »
Please don't use starting fluid in a gas engine. Nothing removes the oil film on metal better than this stuff, in fact I use it on freshly machined 'show' metal items to remove finger print oil.
The stuff is meant for diesel engines that have too low compression to create enough heat to fire.
In gas engines it's poison, and can make years of wear happen in seconds.
Just sayin'. :)

For a nation to believe it can tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and believing he can raise himself by pulling on the handle - Winston Churchill

Offline Ukhozi

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Re: Zforce 800 Crack but no start
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2018, 08:25:09 AM »
compression test would be next on the list

You can get a decent reading but still have tight valves as in zero clearance. 1/4 turn out inlet and 1/3 turn out exhaust will do it.

Offline CCALF

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Re: Zforce 800 Cranks but no start
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2018, 01:09:31 PM »
Hey guys, sorry i havnt responded in awhile. t
The machine has been in the shop for over a month before they even got to look at it..

They of course gave me the worst news possible. Mechanic says both cylinders are gone... How does this happen? I litterally had it running fine before it bogged down..

Machine passes compression test but fails the leakdown. I am seriously having a hard time believing this. Took the guy 10 hours to figure out the engine was trash. Any one have any advice on this? I find it hard to believe that over oiling a uni filter would trash the engine...

Machine has 1000 miles and I just bought it 4 months ago.  He wants $6000 to repair the top end. Any advice in this?

Thanks,
Chris

Offline NMKawierider

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Re: Zforce 800 Cranks but no start
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2018, 01:21:31 PM »
Hey guys, sorry i havnt responded in awhile. t
The machine has been in the shop for over a month before they even got to look at it..

They of course gave me the worst news possible. Mechanic says both cylinders are gone... How does this happen? I litterally had it running fine before it bogged down..

Machine passes compression test but fails the leakdown. I am seriously having a hard time believing this. Took the guy 10 hours to figure out the engine was trash. Any one have any advice on this? I find it hard to believe that over oiling a uni filter would trash the engine...

Machine has 1000 miles and I just bought it 4 months ago.  He wants $6000 to repair the top end. Any advice in this?

Thanks,
Chris
The guy's full of it. You can buy a brand new complete crate engine for under 4K and..one can not pass a compression test and fail a leak-down test. A leak-down test tells you where a cylinder is leaking...either or both the valves and rings so..that's bogus. Although as a side note, those that did not change out the stock air filter are only getting on average less then 1200 miles out of their top ends. But the compression would be well below the bottom threshold. Take your own compression test. If it is bad, call nFlow. They also re manufacture CFMoto engines and it will be less then 3K...and carry a full warranty.   
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 01:23:11 PM by NMKawierider »
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Offline CCALF

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Re: Zforce 800 Cranks but no start
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2018, 06:57:57 PM »


Really wish i would have read these forums before being this machine. What a waste of money! When i talked to the mechanic it said it took him 30 hours to find the issue but hed only charge me for ten guess thats the special treatment.... 1,000 dollars and he didn't even fix ANYTHING! he states he swapped the ECU, massairflow, TPS and much more. for a guy that works in these things daily he sure takes awhile to swap all this stuff. I feel like he's full of shit.

I changed the stock filter about a month after i bought the machine, so the stock airfilter had about 500-600 miles before switching to uni. here is southern colorado it is VERY VERY dusty. This is the reason i changed the stock filter setup to a snorkel, jezz it takes about 40 minutes to get those covers off. maybe the combination of dirty air and the oil sparying issue from the filter could have destored the top end. I just have an extremely hard time spending $6000 on a machine that i bought 4 months ago and road about 15 times....

any idea how much a top end rebuild parts and labor should cost?

Offline NMKawierider

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Re: Zforce 800 Cranks but no start
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2018, 08:05:51 PM »


Really wish i would have read these forums before being this machine. What a waste of money! When i talked to the mechanic it said it took him 30 hours to find the issue but hed only charge me for ten guess thats the special treatment.... 1,000 dollars and he didn't even fix ANYTHING! he states he swapped the ECU, massairflow, TPS and much more. for a guy that works in these things daily he sure takes awhile to swap all this stuff. I feel like he's full of shit.

I changed the stock filter about a month after i bought the machine, so the stock airfilter had about 500-600 miles before switching to uni. here is southern colorado it is VERY VERY dusty. This is the reason i changed the stock filter setup to a snorkel, jezz it takes about 40 minutes to get those covers off. maybe the combination of dirty air and the oil sparying issue from the filter could have destored the top end. I just have an extremely hard time spending $6000 on a machine that i bought 4 months ago and road about 15 times....

any idea how much a top end rebuild parts and labor should cost?

Well, she spent 600 miles in dusty conditions with a filter that basically strains-out the gravel and nothing else. That's more then enough to do any engine in, no matter who makes it. Heck mine was changed to a new OE after 50 miles and was changed out to the foam/oil filters before it even had 125 miles on it and it already had dirt and dust caked on the turns of the intake tube. That cost my engine thousands of miles-worth of life down the road..and yeah..I was pissed..but.."knock on wood"..the engine is still like new with max compression, no blow-by, no oil usage...and no weird sounds. Lucky so far but that why I'm a bit of a freak about air filters. Seen and heard too many horror stories.     

Anyway, just a top-end should be able to be done for around 1200 at a shop. There's about 300 in parts and machining.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 08:10:25 PM by NMKawierider »
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Offline CCALF

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Re: Zforce 800 Cranks but no start
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2018, 07:42:48 PM »
So if the compression test passes on both cylinders then that rules out the top end correct?

The mechanic claims he checked valve clearence and every other thing in the book but I highly doubt he did.

Like I stated before hes charging me 10 hours of Labor and he has a suspicion that its the top end. First he says cylinder one is bad then he cals the next day and says they both are bad.....

Offline NMKawierider

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Re: Zforce 800 Cranks but no start
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2018, 08:03:31 PM »
So if the compression test passes on both cylinders then that rules out the top end correct?

The mechanic claims he checked valve clearence and every other thing in the book but I highly doubt he did.

Like I stated before hes charging me 10 hours of Labor and he has a suspicion that its the top end. First he says cylinder one is bad then he cals the next day and says they both are bad.....
Yes, and a compression test takes all of 20 minutes mostly because to get to the front cylinder's plug, you need to pull some cab plastics. The rear one...its in the open. Clearly this guy is taking you for a ride. That should have been diagnosed in less then an hour..probably just a CPS or something like that failed. All cake to test. If there is fuel,air,compression and spark all introduced at the right time,... it will run.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
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