0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

*

emersonsc

Turbo Project
« on: September 25, 2015, 09:41:16 am »
I have seen it done on the HiSun 700... figured a CFMoto would be a PERFECT candidate for a turbo.

I'm looking at the GT15/T15 turbo, because its small, commonly used for engines this size, its what was used for the HiSun, and they are EVERYWHERE and cheap too.

Now my problem.

I know nothing about turbos. I've found the parts I'll need as far as gaskets, flanges, oil adapters, ect. The air piping I'm going to have to do on the fly.

Anyone out there with turbo knowledge:
Do you think the Zforce has enough space for a turbo?
What kind of obstacles should I expect? (I have a welder who can do stainless steel, so the welding and fab work isnt an issue)

The idea is to have the intake side of the turbo face towards the d/s rear wheel that way I have space for routing the air piping.

*

Bpraim

Re: Turbo Project
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2015, 10:29:51 pm »
Buy the kit, it's been done, check youtube
http://www.gokartsusa.com/browseproducts/Turbo-Kit.HTML

*

emersonsc

Re: Turbo Project
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2015, 09:23:20 am »
Buy the kit, it's been done, check youtube
http://www.gokartsusa.com/browseproducts/Turbo-Kit.HTML

seems like an overpriced thrown together "kit." I wouldnt mind paying that if the exhaust parts were ready, but all this has are adapters that will require fabricating.

That turbo is $180 all day long on eBay. The flange adapters plus gaskets are $65. That fuel pump isnt necessary because these are EFI not carb'd. I'd rather run a sock over a tube than put another K&N product on my machine. I just dont see the justification for such a high price tag when that kit eliminates ZERO of the fabrication work needed.

*

Bpraim

Re: Turbo Project
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2015, 09:41:18 am »
Hahaha

*

emersonsc

Re: Turbo Project
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2015, 11:53:19 am »
Well bad news on the crankshaft front...

The Hisun connecting rods have a smaller diameter on the lower end, and they are shorter too. The hisun's crankshaft has a longer throw, and shorter rods.

The only other way at this point to use the Wiseco pistons is to have brass bushings made to fit the CFMoto rods that reduce to a 20mm wrist pin. The stock CFMoto wrist pin is 22mm, so its too big to use the BRP Wiseco pistons.

*

Offline Cosmosdan

Re: Turbo Project
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2015, 01:39:23 pm »
Does oil come up the conecting rod? I have tried bushings for gears in the past. Brass won't work. Bronze is ok and oilight is ok but softer. That thin will need to be pressed in than reamed  while it is installed. The material will compress when you push it in there. Expanding reamers work well to creap up on the size you need.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

*

Offline Cosmosdan

Re: Turbo Project
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2015, 01:48:05 pm »
I have a better idea. Take a 22mm. Pin and grind it down to 20mm. On each end. As long as the ends are smaller than the center it should slide right in. The surface finish needed will be the only pain part.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

*

emersonsc

Re: Turbo Project
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2015, 06:06:27 pm »
Does oil come up the conecting rod? I have tried bushings for gears in the past. Brass won't work. Bronze is ok and oilight is ok but softer. That thin will need to be pressed in than reamed  while it is installed. The material will compress when you push it in there. Expanding reamers work well to creap up on the size you need.

The bearings/bushings in the connecting rods are brass. I've got this motor completely broken down, i know the inside of these motors like the back of my hand.

How ever, there's more bad news...

CFMoto designed these cylinders with VERY THIN lining. When I let them know I found a company that wanted to make aftermarket and over sized pistons, I got this response:

"Emerson,
That would be a good option if it would work however, we do have a few small obstacles.
1.       We use a cast in liner, this design offers great heat transfer at a good production cost.  Trouble is, the actual liner thickness is not so much and boring could compromise strength.

2.       We use a progressive hardness, this means the deeper you go into the bore the softer the material.  The best wear surface is the original bore diameter."


So, over sized is not an option unless the BRP cylinders would fit (which they appear to), but the cost to get them, plus the cost for be to have the pistons made wouldnt be worth it.

I could also go with STD sized pistons with and higher compression, but I have no way of replacing the bearings with a higher quality bearing since they are all "sheeve" style bearings, and not your typical roller bearing. I would also need a more aggressive cam to deal with the higher compression.

Over all, other than the basics of adjusting fuel map, better flow air filter & exhaust, CFMoto has closed the door on any significant performace modification. I think this is a VERY bad idea. People love and go after CanAm, Polaris, ect because of the potential and things that can be done. These were designed in a way where nothing worthwhile performance wise can be done.

Bums me out for sure.

*

Offline Cosmosdan

Re: Turbo Project
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2015, 06:58:35 pm »
When they say progressive I think they mean case hardened. What is someone to do when you need to over bore the clyender? I have looked at changing from plain bearings to needle bearings for other projects but you need at least 4mm diameter difference between the two and sometimes you just can't get it.
2013 Z6 Trail
Iron Baltic skid plates
UE Boom Speaker mount
RZR 800 Shocks
Mostly stock trail riding
25g. Rollers and A1

2016 Outlander max 570
Too new for mods yet

*

Bpraim

Re: Turbo Project
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2015, 08:24:39 pm »
Em,
I have a 855cc guessing through calculation,  in the back of my shop right now,
We bored the cylinders of a couple claim ones we had (bad filters) and started hot rod.
I will try to find what pistons where used in that project. Valves we used toyota vios, cam was a fresh grind by a guy here. It was a little lumpy but smoothed out nice higher up.
I sent the cylinders to USA to be replated (nikacil) coating. Can't remember the company I tried this time.
There is a lot of meat on cfmoto cylinders to be removed.
There are a lot of possibilities with these engines, I met a couple Russian guys that have heavy modded these engines.

When you are asking cfmoto these questions, are you talking with china or your us rep
I used to get told by them nothing would work, when we invited them over, I had to help them slide their jaws across the floor.
If you noticed the new plastic under the seats compareing 14-15 that was our idea, the powersteering on the z8ex they also took a large amount of photos , then with in months eps was out, with a bracket just like mine.

*

emersonsc

Re: Turbo Project
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2015, 07:33:26 am »
Em,
I have a 855cc guessing through calculation,  in the back of my shop right now,
We bored the cylinders of a couple claim ones we had (bad filters) and started hot rod.
I will try to find what pistons where used in that project. Valves we used toyota vios, cam was a fresh grind by a guy here. It was a little lumpy but smoothed out nice higher up.
I sent the cylinders to USA to be replated (nikacil) coating. Can't remember the company I tried this time.
There is a lot of meat on cfmoto cylinders to be removed.
There are a lot of possibilities with these engines, I met a couple Russian guys that have heavy modded these engines.

When you are asking cfmoto these questions, are you talking with china or your us rep
I used to get told by them nothing would work, when we invited them over, I had to help them slide their jaws across the floor.
If you noticed the new plastic under the seats compareing 14-15 that was our idea, the powersteering on the z8ex they also took a large amount of photos , then with in months eps was out, with a bracket just like mine.

Would love to get what ever info you have. I would like to do something to this motor while I still have it in pieces. I took it completely down because of all the sand, I had to replace crank and rod bearings. You can see the liner in the cylinder, and the process they use looks a bit sloppy. On one side its super thing and on the opposite side its 3 times thicker. I hear all the time how guys in russia are doing stuff to theirs, but any time i google search nothing ever comes up.