Author Topic: Trashed engine at 350 miles  (Read 714 times)

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Offline nickp

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Trashed engine at 350 miles
« on: September 21, 2018, 09:18:08 AM »
CFMOTO USA IS NOW REPLACING MY BLOCK IN GOOD WILL

I have a 2016 z800. Well maintained. I used the stock filter for waranty purposes and even replaced it at 150 miles along with the oil.

Now at 350 miles. Lost compression on both cylinders. When dealer took it apart they saw fine dust ingestion. CFMoto will not cover it under warantty. I guess I should have changed filter every 50 miles?

Quoted 2800$ for block replacement. I will just rebuild it myself.

Super disapointed with CFMoto and their waranty support. Especially when polaris 900s are going for $12000 at dealers right now.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 10:15:34 AM by nickp »

Offline NMKawierider

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2018, 10:44:04 AM »
That's too bad...sorry to hear it. That is..the biggest reason we all put first replacing the stock filter before even taking delivery if possible to a quality foam filter like the Unifilter....and not the TwinAir.. The factory OE filter is and always has been the #1 killer of all CFM engines. Hope your rebuild goes well.
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Offline nickp

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2018, 12:03:16 PM »
Yeah I was going to replace it with the Uni after the warranty period. But instead bought a second OEM filter. That is how most warranties work. Keep the product stock. Guess CFMoto gets to pick and choose what they want to cover.

Also I would recomend for everyone to put an oiled foam sock on the intake elbow behind the intake grill.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 12:04:53 PM by nickp »

Offline Diver

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2018, 12:13:46 PM »
What is strange is i talked with a guy a couple of months ago that lives in Berlin. He had over 2 or 3 k miles on his 2015 z8 and only dealer serviced every 1000 miles.  He claims it never let him down . He trail rides and plows in winter. Berlin is one heck of a dust bowl at times... Beginning to wonder what is going on .. My buddy's have cans and heck they pour out a qt of grit out of air cleaners once a month and only blow them out..  ..  I rotate my oil bath filters every week cause of what i read here and im glad i do cause they are just plain azz dirty unless it is a wet ride..  It has to be opening up the ring gap from all the grit my buddys suck in... But they still are running and doing the race in Berlin today..

Offline nickp

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2018, 08:33:52 AM »
This summer was my first of riding. And it was mad max conditions for 3 months. Goggles and face masks every ride. I checked the filter box after every ride and would blow the filter out.

When I did my oil change and filter change at 150m I saw 4 pieces big enough for me to tell it was piston rings. And I complained to dealer about it and the fact that front cylinder had a tick from 0 miles. But everyone said it was normal.

I changed the oil at 300 miles due to dust riding. And saw more pieces and more gunk on the oil plug. At 350 I took it to dealer for warranty because i could tell I had lost power. Dealer said my machine was in a really good condition. And there should be no problem getting warranty work.

CFMoto found a way out of warranty because they say the machine ingested sand dust.

Offline cr2crf

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2018, 08:53:22 AM »
I have a 2016 z800. Well maintained. I used the stock filter for waranty purposes and even replaced it at 150 miles along with the oil.

Now at 350 miles. Lost compression on both cylinders. When dealer took it apart they saw fine dust ingestion. CFMoto will not cover it under warantty. I guess I should have changed filter every 50 miles?

Quoted 2800$ for block replacement. I will just rebuild it myself.

Super disapointed with CFMoto and their waranty support. Especially when polaris 900s are going for $12000 at dealers right now.

Sorry to hear that, man.  I did a lot of reading before buying mine and I had the Uni filter waiting before I even took delivery of the Z800.  And, is it me, or does anyone else experience this; I clean my filter after each ride cause it is way too dirty to keep going.  We typically do 50 to one hundred miles a trip.  Almost stock intake (the dealer popped a 2 inch hole through the bed and extended the stock air intake to the bed.  Says it's less dusty there - not!).  This winter I plan to do a NMK type snorkel. 

Offline ctdls

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2018, 09:04:28 AM »
I don't have the off road experience with this type of failure however I would like to make a couple of comments. Others will chime in I'm sure.

First, I see a disconnect between ring pieces in the oil & dirt in the intake. Power normally goes away as the cylinder scuffs & looses ring seal.....broken rings not so sure.

Can you get some photo's of the failure specifically the piston, cylinder & rings.

Of course the the explanation of how this broke the rings.
ZF 800 LX Trail, stock for now.......not for long.

Offline nickp

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2018, 02:46:43 PM »
I'm waiting for corporate to respond to my warranty complaint so its staying at the dealer till then. Loss of power happened at 150 mph when it struggled to get above 40mph. I put it off as nothing due to me putting on doors and a skid plate. Which are heavy on top of 350lbs of total passenger weight and a cooler.

I can upload pictures of the pieces of rings. I found.

I think I might have gotten unlucky and had early ring failure. But they also found dust ingestion on top of that. And are claiming they will not cover due to "lack of air filter Maintanance".

Offline ctdls

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2018, 08:29:19 PM »
I would like to see photo's of the piston & cylinder bore, why the rings broke is the question.

If some dust in the air intake caused the rings to break I would like to hear why backed up with the evidence looking @ the piston & bore. There are many other reasons for rings to break, not saying dirt in the intake isn't the reason.

Often early failures such as yours are due to assembly problem, maybe a ring was broken @ that time. Or an out of spec part installed, maybe a ring end gap was to tight. Many reasons.

Not wanting to give you any false hope, just want to be sure the actually cause of death is accurate.
ZF 800 LX Trail, stock for now.......not for long.

Offline nickp

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2018, 07:00:15 AM »
Video of first oil filter change at 150 miles. Second filter had nothing in it.


Offline NMKawierider

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2018, 09:54:02 AM »
If that's daylight I see shining through in several folds, that's something you never want to see in an air filter..let alone an oil filter. Those were big enough to let particles large enough to effect the rod bearings. If those are the OE filters...I'm going to have to re-evaluate their usage.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 11:08:37 AM by NMKawierider »
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Offline nickp

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2018, 10:13:57 AM »
I saw daylight shining through in several folds. Something you never want to see in an air filter..let alone an oil filter. Those were big enough to let particles large enough to effect the rod bearings. If those are the OE filters...I'm going to have to re-evaluate their usage.

Thats OEM oil filter with metal shavings at 150 miles. 300 mile change also had some. Good news is they are changing the long block for free now since I contacted them.

Here are pictures.

I blew this filter out 2 times. Changed it at 150 miles. I can upload pictures of second filter after I get the Z back.



oil drain plug piston ring piece and build up



oil filter had some too
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 10:17:05 AM by nickp »

Offline ctdls

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2018, 10:46:43 AM »
Goods news! Nothing in this world is free  ;)

I would still want to know cause of death if they will will tell, you don't want a re occurrence.
ZF 800 LX Trail, stock for now.......not for long.

Offline NMKawierider

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2018, 11:07:18 AM »
Just an FYI..you don't blow-out paper filters without opening-up pours. The foam prefilter..yeah..but not the paper unless you can do it at a distance that won't effect the media.  If you haven't already done so, get the Unifilter..right now.
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | Magellan TRX7 GPS| Bandit Springs

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Offline nickp

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Re: Trashed engine at 350 miles
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2018, 11:12:07 AM »
im 100% sure my piston ring was bad from factory. I had a weird front cylinder tick that no one else had. Not this bad at least. When engine was cold it would be loud and go away at operating temp. I thought it was the timing chain tensioner.

PLUS where I was this summer the dust was so bad from everyone riding that you couldn't see 3 feet in front of you and the location of the intake elbow basically vaccumed all the dust and I would have to blow out the  OEM air filter after every ride. Since the warranty is up at the end of the year. I am relocating the intake up higher and putting a 2nd oiled uni filter inside snorkel intake. Then a second one in factory intake box. Im not messing around with OEM air filtration anymore.