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Offline gotime4

How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« on: March 28, 2018, 09:46:16 am »
I am all over the place, trying to figure out what I want.

Can anyone weigh in on the differences 1000 and 800. My main question is it worth (the deals i can get) $3500 difference between the 1000 and the 800?

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Offline REDRIDER

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2018, 10:10:05 am »
I am all over the place, trying to figure out what I want.

Can anyone weigh in on the differences 1000 and 800. My main question is it worth (the deals i can get) $3500 difference between the 1000 and the 800?
Probably not, unless you need the extra power.

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Offline NMKawierider

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2018, 11:01:09 am »
I really can't weigh-in because I haven't driven one but on paper being the same chassis as the 800EX with just an extra 20 HP or so you would think twice..but reports are coming in that suggests with the wet clutch deleted, the new tuning, exhaust, caming and a few other things that it feels like it has more like 100HP then 82(about). If you are just a trail rider in average conditions I would think the 800 may be just fine...but if you ride open areas..sand..deep mud..or with others that have 1K machines.. you might want to consider the 3500 extra. I can say this from experience. I had the chance to ride with a member who traded his 800 in for a YXZ..up a sand hill that 70% of the time my 800 wouldn't climb...and his went through all the gears and top the dune at well over 60mph getting air to the other side. Not only did I about to need a shorts-change..but I told myself right then and there that I would never buy anything less then a 1000cc machine again. Yes, the YXZ is a little special...but it did spoil me for power and the "rush-factor." The CFM 1000 won't compare...but it will be closer. Now with all that said, for 95% of what I do, the 800 is just fine. The other 5% I can live with...for now. Just my 2cents. :)
2015 Z Force 800 (53") EPS -
Custom Air Intakes | Custom Exhaust Mod | SuperATV Harness | Custom Fenders | Custom Skid/Rock Sliders | 27" GBC Grim Reapers | Seizmik Mirrors |Конструктор (Rodin's) Doors | Dr Pulley Sliders | 1.5" Wheel Spacers | BENZ Silencer (as needed) | SATV Flip Windshield W\ Rear Shield | Dual Light Bars | Diamond Plate Storage | Magellan TRX7 GPS| Bandit Springs

My Videos On YouTube

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Offline venom8343

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2018, 12:06:59 pm »
I can't speak for the 800 but I absolutely love my 1000!!!  So far it's been great and it has all kinds of power.  I've had it to 71 so far but I ran out of road so I don't know what it will top out at.  It get's there very fast!  If you have any particular questions about the 1000, I'll be glad to take a look at mine and respond.

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Offline glenlivet

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2018, 01:11:51 pm »
I have the 800 and I have only found it lacking enough power to do something, one time and that was climbing a sandy hill carrying two up. I have gone up the same hill by myself however. Still I haven't reclocked the secondary yet and that might or ought to make a big difference. Obviously with the 1000, power will not be the limiting factor.
My riding is trail related and occasional long trips where mileage and the need for carrying a certain amount of fuel weighs into it. So far it's not tested but it appears that with the 27 liter tank an additional 14 liter pack my range ought to be over 400 kilometers. I haven't seen mileage figures on the 1000 but reports suggest they are at the least, proportionately more thirsty and the gas tank's the same size.

In our mountainous area engine braking on steep hills is a desirable feature. I found to my great satisfaction that the Z800 will descend the steepest hills in low range while maintaining idle RPM, with no use of the service brake at all at a steady 3 KMH (2 MPH)! This is due to the way the wet clutch works. If one were to shut off the key while the machine is descending such a hill the vehicle would simply stop and sit there. :) (though I wouldn't just leave it like that and go for a nature walk) With the 1000, CF Moto has dispensed with the wet clutch and the 1000 has a 'belt slammer' style dry clutch CVT, like Polaris and Can Am uses. I don't yet know how the CFM 1000 behaves on very steep low range descents, no one has reported on it that I've seen.

Generally though, when the RPM on a belt/clutch machine falls to idle the belt goes slack, and then the machine would free wheel unless the operator blips the throttle again to get the belt to re-engage. (and does this time and again) Not exactly an intuitive act when going down a hairy hill. :o
Newer Polaris' get around that runaway at idle thing by employing a switch activated "Active Descent Control", a device that involves clutch plates, solenoids, special oil that wants frequent changing, and of which I have yet to find any useful explanation on how it works or how it doesn't, (which sometimes happens too.) :)
Does CF Moto have some such provision on their 1000 for low RPM/low speed engine braking? Nobody's talking, at least just yet. The dry clutch does have much better 'snatch and go' behavior for ripping around though.

With the new 1000, CFM has apparently dispensed with the hand brake as operating an entirely independent mechanical disk brake located on the driveline just ahead of the rear gearcase, and now that lever operates the regular service brakes. I think of this as a step backward or the loss of a useful safety feature, as one can lose the service brakes over things like overheating, and if the hand lever is just another means to engage the failed service brakes then you have run pretty short on options. CFM had a great extra brake, why throw it away?

The siren song of scads of power is hard to resist though. When the riders of similar size machines of other unspecified make give you that scornful 'Chinese, huh?' look and then you whup their arse with it, that's got to feel good.  8)

Oh and the 1000 has nice half doors. The 800 has webs. :P
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 01:16:07 pm by glenlivet »
For a nation to believe it can tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and believing he can raise himself by pulling on the handle - Winston Churchill

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Offline gotime4

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2018, 01:13:57 pm »
I can't speak for the 800 but I absolutely love my 1000!!!  So far it's been great and it has all kinds of power.  I've had it to 71 so far but I ran out of road so I don't know what it will top out at.  It get's there very fast!  If you have any particular questions about the 1000, I'll be glad to take a look at mine and respond.

have you raced a rzr 1000 at all, just curious from your point of view against a rzr 1000

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Offline Hal

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2018, 01:57:50 pm »
I traded a 2017  800EX for a new Z1000 so have a pretty good idea of the value difference. The 800 never gave me any issues and was a great machine. The new car doesn't have enough time on it to give any real world claims as to reliability but so far so good. The difference in handling is pretty much a moot point as both use the same frame although the near instant power with the 1000 does make it easier to maneuver in some instances. The absence of all the clanking and banging the 800 wet clutch made is a real nice plus and the dramatic acceleration increase I'd attribute to the clutch, is great. I never was able to smoothly accelerate from a stop with the 800 where the 1000 is nice and smooth. I taught my 13 year old grand daughter to drive this car and she had no issues at all-she had never driven anything before.
The 1000 is defiantly faster in every situation, much more dramatically than the 20 hp would suggest. BUT, you'll pay for it in the economy of the two cars. The 800 would typically return 20-22 mpg where this new ride is more in the 14-16 mpg range.The brakes seem to have improved also although I wouldn't consider them great by any means.The half doors are nice and you need to take them into consideration when comparing prices between the two vehicles. I had the Russian doors on the 800 and really liked them but when I get some fill in panels for these doors they should be fine too.That is all personal preference of course, maybe you would prefer the half doors. The seats have also been improved and are more comfortable for us anyway.
Where ever the idea about the parking brake actuation came from, is incorrect, at least on mine. The rear calipers have a mechanical arm which the P brake cable attaches and actuates. The 1000 does have engine braking but it does unlock down near idle. It seems to have more braking than the 800 until you get really slow. On my first demo ride I drove into the dealer on my 800 and got into the 1000 to test drive it. When I got back the first thing I mentioned was how the 1000 had more engine braking than my 800. You'll have to try it yourself.   
The extra money spent for the 1000 would depend on how you plan on using the car. If you're mostly rock and trail with little sand, the 800 would probably be all you'd ever need. If sand or racing is in your future, the 1000 would be where I'd go. Of course having that 1000 decal is great to show off when you're with your buddies but if you're running together, I find that everyone pretty much stays with the slowest ride anyway.
Just my take on the cars,
Hal
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 12:13:20 pm by Hal »

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Offline ctdls

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2018, 07:24:22 pm »
Hal, you report is hard to read. It would be very helpful to go back & sort it a little.

I scanned thru & it seems awesome!
ZF 800 LX Trail, stock for now.......not for long.

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Offline Z8rider

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2018, 11:26:34 am »
I traded a 2017  800EX for a new Z1000 so have a pretty good idea of the value difference. The 800 never gave me any issues and was a great machine. The new car doesn't have enough time on it to give any real world claims as to reliability but so far so good. The difference in handling is pretty much a moot point as both use the same frame although the near instant power with the 1000 does make it easier to maneuver in some instances. The absence of all the clanking and banging the 800 wet clutch made is a real nice plus and the dramatic acceleration increase I'd attribute to the clutch, is great. I never was able to smoothly accelerate from a stop with the 800 where the 1000 is nice and smooth. I taught my 13 year old grand daughter to drive this car and she had no issues at all-she had never driven anything before.
The 1000 is defiantly faster in every situation, much more dramatically than the 20 hp would suggest. BUT, you'll pay for it in the economy of the two cars. The 800 would typically return 20-22 mpg where this new ride is more in the 14-16 mpg range.The brakes seem to have improved also although I wouldn't consider them great by any means.The half doors are nice and you need to take them into consideration when comparing prices between the two vehicles. I had the Russian doors on the 800 and really liked them but when I get some fill in panels for these doors they should be fine too.That is all personal preference of course, maybe you would prefer the half doors. The seats have also been improved and are more comfortable for us anyway.
Where ever the idea about the parking brake actuation came from, is incorrect, at least on mine. The rear calipers have a mechanical arm which the P brake cable attaches and actuates. The 1000 does have engine braking but it does unlock down near idle. It seems to have more braking than the 800 until you get really slow. On my first demo ride I drove into the dealer on my 800 and got into the 1000 to test drive it. When I got back the first thing I mentioned was how the 1000 had more engine braking than my 800. You'll have to try it yourself.   
The extra money spent for the 1000 would depend on how you plan on using the car. If you're mostly rock and trail with little sand, the 800 would probably be all you'd ever need. If sand or racing is in your future, the 1000 would be where I'd go. Of course having that 1000 decal is great to show off when you're with your buddies but if you're running together, I find that everyone pretty much stays with the slowest ride anyway.
Just my take on the cars,
Hal

Z1000 does not have engine braking. Naturally negative energy will be transferred through the engine while coasting providing "engine braking" until the clutches fully disengage. This is why you are experiencing the freewheeling or "unlocking" when the vehicle is coasting and nearly stopped.

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Offline Hal

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2018, 11:54:51 am »
You are  right in that the 1000 doesn't have a mechanical engine brake (sprag in the clutch) but it absolutely has more 'engine' braking than the 800 which is what I'm interested in having. For really slow down hill, more braking is needed, but you've really got to be crawling.
Hal

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Offline Hrc630

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2018, 04:25:50 pm »
Does someone with a Z1000 can take a vid of acceleration from 0 to 80 mph ??
I want to see how it compare to my lightly modded ZForce 800.
Check my vid on YouTube for comparaison.

Also what is the max rpm of the new 1000 (cut off)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 04:27:54 pm by Hrc630 »
ZForce 800 53" 2015
Wet Clutch delete
CVTech Trail block
Two Brothers exhaust
Power Commander 5 with Autotune
ELKA Stage 5 rear shocks
Custom doors
Mud fender
3" wheels spacer

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Offline Sockman

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2018, 07:53:58 am »
Thanks for the write-up Hal.  Good info. 
2017 Zforce 800 EX

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Offline venom8343

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2018, 02:06:08 pm »
I can't speak for the 800 but I absolutely love my 1000!!!  So far it's been great and it has all kinds of power.  I've had it to 71 so far but I ran out of road so I don't know what it will top out at.  It get's there very fast!  If you have any particular questions about the 1000, I'll be glad to take a look at mine and respond.

have you raced a rzr 1000 at all, just curious from your point of view against a rzr 1000

I have not lined up beside a rzr 1000 so I'm not sure of the result.  And yes, it has a great engine brake until it reaches idle then it just breaks free and you either use the foot brake or blip the throttle.  Honestly, I don't think it'll run 80 MPH.  I done a VERY shitty video the other day and I hit 70 MPH but I ran out of road.  I'll try to find some time and do a little better with more road.  I'm also curious as to what the absolute top speed is.

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Offline venom8343

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2018, 03:38:53 pm »
Here's a video demonstrating a few different things.  It was filmed with my phone so please don't bash me too hard.  Lol, it's pretty shitty but it'll give you an idea of what the 1000 will do. https://youtu.be/4VVL-xxbc_8

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Offline Hrc630

Re: How much different is the 1000 vs 800
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2018, 04:53:05 pm »
Thanks you for your vid !
The acceleration seem to be good from 0 to 50 but not very fast on top.
I think the rpm is about 300 rpm to low on acceleration and the engine seem to be chocked at high rpm. Probably an exhaust an a new map an it will be a new machine.

On the 800 the stock exhaust is limited by the muffler at high rpm. Does the 1000 have the same exhaust?  If yes, that even worst with the xtra cc. With the proper exhaust and fuel tuning your supposed to be able to reach the fuel limiter on top.

Is the cut off set at the same 7750 rpm like the 800 ?
ZForce 800 53" 2015
Wet Clutch delete
CVTech Trail block
Two Brothers exhaust
Power Commander 5 with Autotune
ELKA Stage 5 rear shocks
Custom doors
Mud fender
3" wheels spacer